I am running 315/70/17 BFG AT/KO's on hummer rims. I have had these on my truck for a few months with no problems. At 65+ mph, there was just a little shake because I hadn't rebalanced them. Because I drilled out the hubs myself, the tires need to be balanced using the 8 lug adapter instead of the hubs.

Since I was getting ready to drive on a 2,000 mile round trip vacation, I took the truck into Discount Tire with specific instructions to use the Lug adapter. Since I got this done the night before I left, I didn't thoroughly check out their work. I was about 50 miles from home and bouncing down the road like a basketball. Pulled over and saw that there was only one tire that was done using the Lug adapter (it had a couple ounces of weights) and three that were done on the hub (they all had about a pound and a half of weights). Using a screwdriver, I pried off all the weights I could, gouging the heck out of my rims in the process, and the ride was much better but still not perfect. I got to Las Vegas and took it to another Discount Tire store and told them that the tires needed to be balanced using the Lug Adapter. They were clueless, and called virtually every store in town to see if any of them had it. No DT store did, so I had them remove all the weights from the three out-of-balance tires and the ride improved a lot.

When I got to Tahoe, I took it to an independent shop and instructed them how to balance them. I watched them do it and they did use the adapter. When I got them back, there was about a pound of weights on each wheel. When I questioned the owner, he said the BFG's are notorious for being lopsided. Well as I drove home yesterday, I shimmied like a salsa dancer. Again i pulled over and scratched the heck out of my wheels just so I could keep from shaking my truck apart. Without exaggeration, the steering wheel was moving back and forth a 1/2 inch at 65 mph. Once I removed the weights, it got much better. I am so mad because i was really looking forward to cranking up the CTD to see what it could do out on the Nevada desert and I couldn't stand to drive over 55 mph. Fifth wheelers were passing me like I was standing still.

I don't think that the tires are lopsided. I just think that the store runs them up to 35 mph and slaps on the weights that the machine tells them to. At 35 mph, the tires are smooth as silk. At 65 mph, they feel like the Magic Fingers beds in a cheap motel.

Anyone have any suggestions? Is there a way to balance them on the truck at high speed? At this point, I am tempted to use the highway by house and balance them myself through trial and error.


Edited by Admin

 

I would break the tires down and turn them 90* on the rims. a tire shop interested in getting business will do this until they find the spot that requires the least amount of weight. It was done with my hi-po car tires on my old car, because I was concerned with any additional rotating and unsprung weight...

On a truck wheel, it'll just let you run less weight.

Being unbalanced for a while, they are probably wearing slightly uneven, which is making the shake a little worse.

Also, make sure the shop is using a Hunter 9700GSP with road force, and that they USE the road force. it's optional, and doesn't automatically get implemented when spinning.

 

If this has caused my tires to get "out of round", is there any way to undo this uneven wear? If the tires are egg-shaped now, I am sure that DT will say that they have always been like this (which is untrue).

 

Well, in cases like these over here we do an on truck balancing. This is done by the truck tire shops over here. (You will see out of round the moment you spin them)

I read on this board about some stuff you put into the tire and that will automagically balance it.

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...alancing+beads

HTH

AlpineRAM

 

Chris, I hope you're getting your money back from these bad balancing jobs. After owning several sets of BFGs (both ATs and MTs) and mounting up a bunch when I used to work for Discount, I've never experienced any of them being "notoriously lopsided" as that guy put it... once in a while we had to spin them 90° or more commonly 180° to get them into a balanceable range... but that goes for any brand of large tire... not just BFGs in particular. Like you said, I bet they are just spinning them up to 35 and slapping on weights where the machine tells them to... standard fare nowadays. It seems that you have to raise a big stink with them to get them to bring out the good technician and have him spend some time to get the job done right... at least that's the way it was here at the Prescott stores when I worked there.

Not sure about the potential out of round condition and reversal... no experience with that yet... maybe someone else knows and can chime in about that.

Like Eskimo said, I'd look for a place that offers Road Force Balancing... ironically, I just found a Discount page that outlines the procedure here... http://www.discounttiredirect.com/roadForce.html
Not sure if the stores you went to offered this service or not... I have yet to see one of these machines in a Discount store in AZ, but they might have them down in the valley.

Your other options would be using the powder, or the antifreeze/water mix for balancing (no personal experience with either, but have heard good things). I also found some links for hub-mounted balancers... relatively expensive compared to lead weights, but the concept sounds interesting... http://www.balancemasters.com/trucks.html http://www.mrtruck.net/centramatic.htm
Hopefully you won't have to go that far. I must have lucked out... my drilled H2s and 315's are still running smooth with the factory balancing (knock on wood). Good luck & keep us posted.

 

On a sidenote- did you check whether the tires are all seated correctly? I've had some BFGs that would need serious attention to come out all the way uniformly. (Good thing they have checkmarks
My worst BFGs (255/85R16) used no more than 200g. This was after some serious offroading and the rims did contribute, these are my spare wheels.
Properly balanced the tire will get back to round somewhat after a hard braking maneuver sheared off some mms in one place.

AlpineRAM

 

Jason, thanks for the info. I do know that the DT store across the street has this ride match system. They used it to show that 3 of the 4 tires they recommended for my Chevy K1500 were defective and couldn't handle the weight (after I brought it back twice).

In retrospect, I wish I would have left them with the factory balancing. I just had this vision of cruising those long Nevada straight-aways in my new truck at 90+ mph with no sounds/vibrations but the CTD chugging away. Since the First Discount Tire store is right across from my office, I will take it over there tomorrow and tell them to fix it.

I can already hear their response:

DT: "Sir, there is no way that we can take the vibration out of these wheels because your tires are not round. If you would like, we can put new tires on for you. That will come to $967.15."

Me: "They were round when you balanced them the first time! They are only lopsided because you didn't do your job right. You should replace the tires at your own cost"

DT: "Since your tires weren't bought here, we can't be responsible for them."

Oh well, I will let you know how it goes. I sure hope they get tired of seeing my face coming through the door.

 

I hate to say it, but sometimes it seems this is the only way to get service these days...

 

One product of the modern age that I wouldn't be without is balance beads.
I'll never go back to the ancient lead weight spin balance method on any vehicle. Sort of crude pounding a gob of ugly weights on your rims. Tire shops don't like them and will tell you a bunch of falsehoods because the beads make their expendsive balance machines obsolete.

Cheaper, perfect balance for the life of the tire and you aren't at the mercy of a tire jockey who really doesn't give a hoot.
Most all semis have been using them for years.
I have hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles with them.

For a good source and lots of info click here > tire balance beads

Try it and you'll never go back to the old way.

 

CaughtinmyGrill,
A couple of important questions first if you don't mind.

What does your wheel/tire combination weigh? (bathroom scale is fine)

I understand that you cannot get a true weight estimate from a quality, modern, spin balancer, like a Coates unit, is this true?

I have no doubt that the correct amount of beads in those massive tires will give you a smooth ride, but we have to figure out how much you need to get the job done. Not having even seen these tires, I'm guessing 8 oz. to start, but we may need more. Putting in beads is not an exact science, and that's the advantage. For instance, if a wheel balancer gave you readings (total weight, both sides) of 5, 5.5, 7 and 9 oz, throw in 10 oz. per tire and be done with it. Whatever isn't used to counteract the imbalance will be evenly distributed around the inside circumference of the tire.

What Eskimo said is good advice, I have done this before myself. This usually works when the wheel itself has an imbalance, and that combines with an imbalance in the tire to form a worse-case situation. So you take a piece of chalk, make a mark on the tire at the valve core, take a measurment (weight). Rotate it 180 deg so the mark is opposite the valve core, take another measurement. If it's less, move it left or right only 90 deg, and see if it improves even more. Machined alloy wheels are usually balanced pretty good, it's the welded steel versions (chromed or not) that cause the most problems.

Solving your immediate problem at this point requires some idea of how much to put in.
Is there anywhere that has a balance machine that will reliably provide you with some useful information?

Robert

 

Local shop used Equal to balance my 37" Swampers. They will typically take in upwards of 8-12 oz of lead when new, even on a static balancer.

So far I've put ~ 1K miles on my new tires and they run smooth as silk up to 100MPH.

You might want to have them bust the tires off the rims to check for out of round. I had 2 wheels that had a "hop" in them. Found this while chasing down the infamous death wobble. Right front tire was calling for 18 oz of weight. Took it back to 4 Wheel Parts to have them check the mounting and they busted the tire off to check the rim. 1 hour later I drove out with 2 brand new rims and tires, $0 out of pocket. Still running those rims with no problem, 3 years later.

 

Robert (Racsw),

The tires weigh approx. 90 lbs per wheel. I haven't put them on the scale put I have picked them up and this is just my estimate. I could try the scale later on today. The tires were running about 2 ozs of weights each before the first balancing and they were pretty good but not perfect. With the wear and tear of two thousand miles of running very unbalanced, they may need a lot more now.

I know a 35 inch tall tire is harder to balance than a 31 inch, but these were done so poorly that I can't imagine how they ever get a satisfied customer.

I am taking it into the shop first thing this morning and will have them balanced for a third time. Then, before I accept it, I am taking the technician for a ride so that he can see if he did the job right. I will give everyone an update later. If this doesn't fix it, I will order one of the dynamic balancing products you guys mentioned. Anyone have a preference between the beads and powders? I live in the desert so freezing is not an issue. (I read somewhere that someone had the powder freeze together because of moisture in the tire.)

Thanks for all the advice from everyone.

 

The ceramic beads from the site I linked to are the best. Metal beads tend to rust then end up in a clump, glass beads wear into power and don't spread right. I don't know if it's "acceptable" but I've added a small amount of beads (1oz) to tires that were weight balanced to fine tune them and keep them balanced as they wear. No problem.

 

In my exp thats what you get with BFGs. not to insult them cause there tuff tires but I have yet to get a good balance on them and have it stay there.. I hear good things about the tire powders also.

 

Well, we have a resolution of sorts. Went to the Discount tire shop that originally misbalanced my wheels. I told him how horribly they rode after they balanced them. He responded that it is impossible to balance the H2 Rims/Tires on a truck they weren't designed for (big red flags waving). He said he watched them balance my tires and they used the lug adapter on all four wheels. I said that they were OK but not great when I brought them in, and DT only made them worse, not better. I asked about the load balancing. He said it was not included in the lifetime balancing they had sold me and it would be another $21.95 per tire, and still would not solve my problem.

Since DT sold me a service that they couldn't stand behind, I asked for the original Lifetime Balance fee of $67.96 back. He said no, they had balanced my tires. It was my fault that the tires/rims were not designed for my truck. My response was that if he won't give me a refund, he is going to see me every week for the next 10 years until DT gets it right. After talking with his manager, they decided to give me back my measly $68. The money is not the issue. I am upset that they would sell a service that they so quickly said would never be right. (The same store also sold me tires they recommended that could not handle the weight of my old 4400 pound chevy truck.) Needless to say, after spending a couple thousand $ over the past 10 years at DT, I don't need that kind of service ever again.

I will order the ceramic beads and install them asap. I am sure this will solve my problem. I appreciate everybody's advice. I still think that the rims/tires are fine on this heavy truck. The weight and stance difference is minimal between an H2 and my 2500 QC CTD. The only problem with these tires are the DT monkeys who are working on them. (No offense to every DT employee, this shop just seems to be particularly incompetent.)