Additive to prevent Gelling?
10-20-2004, 11:30 AM
#16
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Carry a bottle of the Diesel 911 and a spare fuel filter and the tool to change it too. I believe the PS white lowers gel point to around -40. I ran it in my old 6.2 and never had any trouble with gelling, even down in the -30s.
10-20-2004, 11:31 AM
#17
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Infidel
How do you avoid #1 diesel in Montana, in the winter....unless you have your own tank?
In this part of the country, all stations from Tulsa north, switch to a blended fuel as of Oct 1st.
Farmer Dave - Doubt Power Service uses alcohol....It would do very little to work as an Anti-gel additive.
The anti-gelling additives work chemically to keep small wax crystals from collecting together (at cold temps) to form bigger crystals which are the ones that clog filters.
RJ
In this part of the country, all stations from Tulsa north, switch to a blended fuel as of Oct 1st.
Farmer Dave - Doubt Power Service uses alcohol....It would do very little to work as an Anti-gel additive.
The anti-gelling additives work chemically to keep small wax crystals from collecting together (at cold temps) to form bigger crystals which are the ones that clog filters.
RJ
10-20-2004, 12:08 PM
#18
Registered User
Re: Infidel
Originally posted by rjohnson
How do you avoid #1 diesel in Montana, in the winter....unless you have your own tank?
In this part of the country, all stations from Tulsa north, switch to a blended fuel as of Oct 1st.
How do you avoid #1 diesel in Montana, in the winter....unless you have your own tank?
In this part of the country, all stations from Tulsa north, switch to a blended fuel as of Oct 1st.
10-20-2004, 03:28 PM
#19
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If you look on the bottle it says no harmful alcohols, so there has to be some form of alcohol in it. Some guys have told me that the alcohol is bad on the pumps, it dries them up. I am not sure though. I have used power service, put if it is going to be hard on the pump, I am going to switch to something else.
Infidel,
I use #1 all the time. Get better milage then #2. I know that #2 is supposed to have more power, but can you tell the difference between them when running? I doubt it. And the truck starts alot easier on #1, and it is a cleaner fuel to run. Don't have to worry about junk in the fuel. Besides, I can get #1 cheaper delivered then I can buy #2 at the pump for.
Infidel,
I use #1 all the time. Get better milage then #2. I know that #2 is supposed to have more power, but can you tell the difference between them when running? I doubt it. And the truck starts alot easier on #1, and it is a cleaner fuel to run. Don't have to worry about junk in the fuel. Besides, I can get #1 cheaper delivered then I can buy #2 at the pump for.
10-22-2004, 05:44 AM
#21
Registered User
Originally posted by farmer dave
Does someone know if power service is bad for the pumps because of the alcohol?
Does someone know if power service is bad for the pumps because of the alcohol?
Don't see how you can be getting better mpgs with #1 diesel as it has considerably less btus than #2. Whenever I have to buy blend in the winter my mileage goes down at least 3 mpgs.
#1 has a lower flash point and will start easier especially when cold and burn cleaner though.
One of the main reasons I quit having winter blend delivered to the farm and changed to #2 with additive was because the exhaust fumes plowing snow with tractors were nasty on the throat.
10-22-2004, 09:26 AM
#22
Registered User
"No Harmful Alcohol" means no harm from the alcohol they use!
There are at least 100 different chemical forms of Alcohol (probably more like 1000+).
Power Services is, as far as I know, a reputable company. I would trust them to know the difference and do what they say.
My experience is that when a label says "Do not use in every tankful" (like many cheap Injector Cleaners) it is the harmful kind of alcohol...designed to run hot and dry!
RJ
PS: Ditto on lower mileage with #1 diesel. Bill...Never seen a pump with choices. That's sweet...wish all areas in the snow belt had that system!
There are at least 100 different chemical forms of Alcohol (probably more like 1000+).
Power Services is, as far as I know, a reputable company. I would trust them to know the difference and do what they say.
My experience is that when a label says "Do not use in every tankful" (like many cheap Injector Cleaners) it is the harmful kind of alcohol...designed to run hot and dry!
RJ
PS: Ditto on lower mileage with #1 diesel. Bill...Never seen a pump with choices. That's sweet...wish all areas in the snow belt had that system!
10-22-2004, 10:49 AM
#23
Registered User
Originally posted by rjohnson
Never seen a pump with choices. That's sweet...wish all areas in the snow belt had that system!
Never seen a pump with choices. That's sweet...wish all areas in the snow belt had that system!
10-22-2004, 11:59 AM
#24
Registered User
Ok you guys are all a little off. Here's the deal.They are not using creative marketing saying that there are no harmful alcohols while there are some in there. There are no alcohols in current powerservice products. However, OLD powerservice that was sold just a few years ago in a white bottle, DID contain alcohols. The way you could tell the difference between the old and new powerservice bottles, was the old white bottles just said diesel fuel supplement, and the newer alcohol free version says diesel fuel supplement + cetane boost. The alcohol used to be there as an emulsifier, to help disperse water in the fuel. However, it was later realized that alcohols are damaging to the injection system and so they removed that part of the formula. I spent about an hour talking to the tech guy at powerservice a year or so ago.
Secondly, powerservice will not drop the gel point to -40F, it will drop the gel point 40 degrees(or however many they specify) lower than the CURRENT gel point of the fuel you're using. With winterized fuel and powerservice you could probably reach those temps without gelling.
Secondly, powerservice will not drop the gel point to -40F, it will drop the gel point 40 degrees(or however many they specify) lower than the CURRENT gel point of the fuel you're using. With winterized fuel and powerservice you could probably reach those temps without gelling.
10-23-2004, 07:46 AM
#26
Administrator / Scooter Bum
Originally posted by GAStarr
Wow, this has been a great conversation. I had no idea there was this much information. Thanks to all who contibuted.
Wow, this has been a great conversation. I had no idea there was this much information. Thanks to all who contibuted.
10-23-2004, 10:09 AM
#27
Registered User
WINTER WEATHER diesel blues- fuel can be checked for "Gelling" by simply putting some of that PUMP fuel in a quart sealer and leave it outside. The temperature outside your door will be exactly the same as your vehicle, if the sample in the jar has cloudy spots it is "gelling"and you will be having problems. Add your "additive" of choice to the sample and see if it takes the cloudinous out- yahoo home chemistry at it's best. Alcohol does take the moisture and lubricity out of diesel fuel creating friction in mechanical components with tight clearances ie; fuel pumps and injectors!!!!! #1 fuel does have less BTU's but is chemically designed to burn, stay liquid at temperature stated and allow lubrication at lower temps- all oils get thicker to some degree as temperature drops. Manufacturers have improved designs to "help" keep diesel flowing as temps drop with filter/heater combo units however if the fuel gells before the heater in the small fuel supply lines it stops flowing. Diesels also return warm fuel to tank and it will gradually warm up when driving, once again if the tiny little supply line is subjected to extreme cold and fuel is not capable of remaining liquid shut down occurs. Up here we have no choice as to the fuel we buy as oil companies do not want to be responsable for roadside breakdowns. A vehicle running on thin fuel is much warmer than a vehicle with thicker fuel in an attempt to get better fuel milage that quits in the middle of nowhere. Dumbass theory #10 !!! If you can't afford to run the vehicle at the loss of MPG with winter fuel you couldn't afford the truck in the first place. Why take chances with your life and others that ride with you. PK
10-23-2004, 10:28 PM
#28
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The main reason that I run #1 instead of #2 is that it is a cleaner and better fuel. It may not have as much power, put when running PURE #1 I do get better mileage. I am more concerned with running a good clean fuel rather then having engine problems because I bought the cheap stuff. The quality of the fuel is going down, and I don't want to be the one with the problems.
Infidel,
The #1 fuel that we use on the farm smells alot better then burning the strait #2, that stuff stinks. I think that it depends on what type of fuel that you use also, we use amaco. We have never had any problems with bad fuel or other related problems like injectors or pumps (knock on wood).
Infidel,
The #1 fuel that we use on the farm smells alot better then burning the strait #2, that stuff stinks. I think that it depends on what type of fuel that you use also, we use amaco. We have never had any problems with bad fuel or other related problems like injectors or pumps (knock on wood).
10-24-2004, 07:35 AM
#30
Administrator / Scooter Bum
I'm wondering if we're all talking about the same #1 fuel. 
from: http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/diesel/b/b.htm
Diesel fuels are classified 1D, 2D, and 4D. Low speed, stationary units use 4D fuels. 4D fuel is not appropriate for most mobile equipment. On-highway and mobile equipment use 1D and 2D fuels. High speed diesel engines use either 1D or 2D fuels. Important characteristics of diesel fuels are its viscosity, pour point, and cetane number. The primary differences between 1D and 2D fuel are the pour point and the viscosity. Pour point is the lowest temperature at which a liquid will flow. Viscosity is the resistance of a liquid to flow. A 1D fuel is designed for cold weather operation; thus, it is less viscous and has a lower pour point. A 2D fuel is used in warmer weather because it has a higher viscosity and pour point. The higher viscosity provides better lubrication qualities for the moving parts of the fuel injection system. Because 2D fuels contain more Btu's (British thermal units - the amount of heat necessary to raise one (1) pound of water one (1) degree fahrenheit) per gallon, they are able to deliver more power per gallon. This is critical to diesel engine fuel economy. The higher the Btu rating a diesel fuel has, the greater power yield per gallon; thus, higher mpg will result. Cetane rating is the diesel equivalent to gasoline's octane rating. Unlike an octane rating, which rates gasoline's resistance to spontaneous ignition, the cetane rating number (usually 40 to 55 for medium to high speed engines) notes the relative ease with which diesel fuel ignites. The higher the cetane number, the easier the fuel ignites; the higher the octane number, the more resistant the fuel is to ignition. Each manufacturer usually specifies a minimum or maximum cetane rating and the suggested operating temperature for 1D and 2D fuels. A given fuel may meet 1D or 2D specifications, but if the Btu rating is too low, then decreased fuel mpg will result.
from: http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/diesel/b/b.htm
Diesel fuels are classified 1D, 2D, and 4D. Low speed, stationary units use 4D fuels. 4D fuel is not appropriate for most mobile equipment. On-highway and mobile equipment use 1D and 2D fuels. High speed diesel engines use either 1D or 2D fuels. Important characteristics of diesel fuels are its viscosity, pour point, and cetane number. The primary differences between 1D and 2D fuel are the pour point and the viscosity. Pour point is the lowest temperature at which a liquid will flow. Viscosity is the resistance of a liquid to flow. A 1D fuel is designed for cold weather operation; thus, it is less viscous and has a lower pour point. A 2D fuel is used in warmer weather because it has a higher viscosity and pour point. The higher viscosity provides better lubrication qualities for the moving parts of the fuel injection system. Because 2D fuels contain more Btu's (British thermal units - the amount of heat necessary to raise one (1) pound of water one (1) degree fahrenheit) per gallon, they are able to deliver more power per gallon. This is critical to diesel engine fuel economy. The higher the Btu rating a diesel fuel has, the greater power yield per gallon; thus, higher mpg will result. Cetane rating is the diesel equivalent to gasoline's octane rating. Unlike an octane rating, which rates gasoline's resistance to spontaneous ignition, the cetane rating number (usually 40 to 55 for medium to high speed engines) notes the relative ease with which diesel fuel ignites. The higher the cetane number, the easier the fuel ignites; the higher the octane number, the more resistant the fuel is to ignition. Each manufacturer usually specifies a minimum or maximum cetane rating and the suggested operating temperature for 1D and 2D fuels. A given fuel may meet 1D or 2D specifications, but if the Btu rating is too low, then decreased fuel mpg will result.