wcbcruzer

I've been considering doing this WVO conversion. I understand the concept behind the conversion, but I'm a newbie to all the details such as different heating and filtering methods, etc. Seems like Greasecar has the cheapest price on a kit. Is there a reason for that? Is that all I'd need? So do you guys just pull into the back of a restaurant and pour the veggie oil right into your spare tank? Or do you collect the oil and go home to filter it, etc... Please fill me in! How hard is it to collect the oil from restaurants?? Thanks for all your input!

VinDiesel

Yes. Their system is very simple [read- not enough heat] and not of the best materials. Look at these:
http://www.frybrid.com/kittest.htm
http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4978

No. You have to prefilter and dewater the oil first.


That depends. Most of the large WVO quantity-generating places are set up with a rendering company [read- written contract]. In this case the company pays them for their waste oil. Also provided is the company's dumpster, and once in the dumpster, removing the oil is stealing (even though the restaurant owner/manager may give permission- it's not their's to give at that point). You may have to offer to pay more than they're currently getting. Smaller volume producers may have to pay to have the WVO hauled off. They would be more likely to want to deal with you. You will need to provide a container or have them dump the used oil into the cubies it came in. This is likely the easiest way for you to transport it if they will do it. If not, then you need to provide a container- tank, drum, etc. You'll need a tank and portable pump to transport it. Some states have laws governing the transport of WVO. You may not want to completely replace the rendering company, as their container is still the best place for the supplier to get rid of the "crud" you don't really want, such as crumbs, chunks, any animal fat, other solids, or any oil with a high water content. Winter will bring on more difficulty in collection, as any WVO in outdoor storage will be semi-solid and much more difficult to pump. You might consider a vacuum tank. Any spill will be a mess. Dried WVO becomes difficult to remove, and damage to painted surfaces is almost certain. Then there's algae, and the fact that the oil can turn rancid...

Consider the cost of a kit/components, fact that your modified vehicle may not hold it's re-sale value as well, expensive engine components and/or the engine itself may not last as long, you may need a license to transport the WVO (in some places, only rendering companies may obtain such licenses), you may be required to pay a road tax on your "alternative" fuel, you will need refining/filtering and storage/transfer equipment, a place to put all this stuff, some energy to power it, and a bunch of time invested...

Still think this is going to save money? It's a royal PIA. Seriously, you might really want to think about it before you jump in. But hey, I'm going to stay at it, but I already have too much invested to stop now!

piekarski

not a big fan of wvo for my own use, but i make biodiesel and can help you with the restaurant thing. rst of all, its nasty stuff, if you have a weak stomach, think twice before commiting. a lot of people try to pump at the restaurant, since pumps can clog and stuff i swap the barrel for an empty one and have 2000 pound atv winch mounted in the back and pull the barrel up a ramp. that way i am in and out quick and can deal with pumping and filtering back at my shop.

MoparMarv

Its Messy and the first few times to get oil you will really ask yourself is it worth it. Thats why you don't see everyone doing it. But fuel ain't getting cheaper and if you have a process set up for collecting and filter when fuel hit 5.00 a gal you will be riding fat dumb and happy. Thats how I see it. I have a large pump and from leaving the house and hitting 2 resturants and filing 2 55gal drums it take 50-60minutes all said and done. Its getting cleaner each time. Also don't make a mess while pump at the resturant. My buddy just did a 7000 miles trip in his benz on WVO. Had a few problems but overall it work with the average purchased fuel mileage of 118mpg. The best method I think is let the oil settle and pump off the top. filter that thru a hydralic filter.

wcbcruzer

Ok, so now I'm not as excited about doing the conversion anymore... But I'm still considering it. I worked fast food for a few years and I had to dump the grease from the fryers every week or so. So I know what you mean by "messy." I heard of a guy using an old water heater to heat the grease to get all the water out. Then he filtered it. What's the best bang for buck and easiest to deal with filtering and water separating method at home?

What problems? Do you still have to work out reliability issues once you install the kit? I wanna be able to run my truck on the highway like I'm using diesel. I don't wanna have anything to worry about.

I figure the resale on the truck would be higher after a WVO conversion... As far as the engine, do you really think the WVO would shorten its life? I'm a member of the Frybrid forums now. I put your name as my referrer. Anyway, apparently there is a $175 license fee to haul grease in CA. $500 fine first offense, $1000 thereafter... But I doubt the cops would waster their time on that. For the greasecar kit... How about if you run 2 heat exchangers in series. You think that would get the temps. up to a minimum 180 degrees?

BTW, thanks for all the good info!

Baja

If you ever come to the Ventura area, I will be glad to show you my truck, storage and filter station and answer all questions as best as I can. I will give you a bunch of very good settled oil as well, I am swimming in the stuff.
I would have to second VinDiesel, that it can be a PITA, and you have to be a bit demented, but it works for me (us).
Gotta admit though, I drive my truck like I stole it, fuel is so cheap.

wcbcruzer

Hey thanks for the offer! I would like to personally see how everything works. So what kit are you running?

Man, I would love to be able to drive the truck like I stole it... If everything works out well, can't wait till I'm hooked up to grease!

Baja

PM me for directions and we can set something up.
I do not run a kit. I had a local person install "his" kit, and he turned out to be a real lowlife, no, worse. No matter, I have been re-doing his mess, learning a lot on the way.
Don't forget the demented bit, the dream of doing this is far more romantic than the reality. If you can make it pay off, it's worth it.

VinDiesel

Yes, the old water heater can be made to work well, see:
http://www.frybrid.com/filtration.htm


There will be issues. If you go with a good kit, or well designed homebrewed system, they should be minimal. You will always run into something, it's Murphy's Law- maybe you get a "bad" batch of oil, or you have a problem with your filtration setup... If you do the "crackle" test for water, then you will likely not have to worry too much about that. Use materials and methods that are known to reduce the risk of polymerization, and hopefully that won't be a problem either.



I figure the resale on the truck would be higher after a WVO conversion... As far as the engine, do you really think the WVO would shorten its life? I'm a member of the Frybrid forums now. I put your name as my referrer. Anyway, apparently there is a $175 license fee to haul grease in CA. $500 fine first offense, $1000 thereafter... But I doubt the cops would waster their time on that. For the greasecar kit... How about if you run 2 heat exchangers in series. You think that would get the temps. up to a minimum 180 degrees?
[/QUOTE]

I mention the re-sale because the great majority of prospective buyers want an unmodified truck. Sure, there might be a few that would consider one already modified, but the number would be much less. Even those that would modify it after they bought it might rather buy a stocker (I would)- how would they know if you were always diligent about letting the engine and oil get up to full temperature before switching over?

Proven to shorten engine/components life, if not done correctly:
http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4910

The irony there is that the thread author is the first person I communicated with regarding WVO and my Dodge/Cummins. He shared a bunch of info including detailed descriptions and schematics of his system. A really great guy!

However, you can also have good results:
http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5094

Hopefully, the cops would have bigger fish to fry... but on a slow night, who knows?

You might want to contact JeffNLisa on the Frybrid forum, Jeff is highly knowlegeable in WVO and located in Victorville, CA. If that's not too far from you, you might want to make the trip for a visit.

With a heated tank pickup and heated filter, you may not need another heat exchanger at the tank. Using the TIH supply and return lines is similar to adding another heat exchanger. The final HE in the engine compartment should have little trouble "topping off" the heat as long as the oil is already fairly close in temp.

I really like that, SO TRUE!

VinDiesel

BTW, I just ran Bakersfield => Victorville on my Tripmaker program.
It's about 141 miles and 2 hours, 40 minutes driving time one way.
Might be well worth the trip.

Just for kicks, I also ran Bakersfield => Oak View. It's approximately 131 miles, 2 hours and 7 minutes to go see Baja.

FYI (since I have the program all fired up): Oak View is ~ 169 miles, 2 hours, 47 minutes from Victorville.

kawi600

You need to find an oil source that will pour waste oil into -your- containers. Once it hits the waste oil removal guy's barrel its their property.
As for the vegoil and biodiesel, one requires an initial investment in plumbing fuel switching and coolant heat and the other requires a bunch of hose, barrels and chemicals that have to be used each time you make a batch of fuel.
Im not sure how well the stock WIF sensor will work with detecting water in the oil. Id want to find a spec on diesel fuel that says exactly the maximum water content and find a way to measure this electronically somehow.
So far this is what I see:

vegoil pros
settle, filter and pour right into veggie tank
no chemicals, no recurring costs outside filters
possible to collect on the road as you drive

vegoil cons
more likely to have water even after settling
may be a problem in the winter even with good heating
kits are pricey, homebrew can be complex
not good for short trips

biodiesel pros
less likely to have water
possible to use even in the winter with a little diesel kleen or kero
good for short trips since it requires no warm-up
no mods made to the vehicle can be used in stock tank

biodiesel cons
chemicals and disposal of glycerin goop
recurring costs for lye, methanol about .75 per gallon
not easy to make this on the road

VinDiesel

kawi600,

Veggie vs bio-D pros/cons well stated!
That should probably be a "sticky" somewhere...

wcbcruzer

Hey, I was checking around for biodiesel. I found a place near me and it costs $3.29/gallon ... Well, it's not much of a savings... Regular diesel costs $3.25 and that's not the cheapest gas station.

VinDiesel

Yeah, that's a bit of a bummer. I suppose the very high start-up costs for the big commercial plants have a lot to do with that. You could look at it on the "helping to save the planet" side, but the reality is most people are just shopping for the best price. Also the bio-D is reported to be harder on some fuel system components, hoses, seals, and so forth. Supposedly, past a certain date most manufacturers have switched to more compatible materials, but that remains rather vague (at least to me ).

You know a bunch of folks would jump to use it even if it were just a few cents cheaper than dino fuel. That could be part of the deal also, wanting to phase it in slowly, see how many report problems before dropping the price and having everybody and their pets trying to use the stuff in antique this or that!

wcbcruzer

I thought biodiesel was actually supposed to be a little better for the engine. I heard it's a really good cleaner for the fuel injection system and offers better lubrication for the lift pump.