Fuels / BioDiesel / Diesel Prices Use this forum to discuss your biodiesel information, and to find the best price on fuel.

Hydrogen

Old 06-07-2008, 12:31 PM
  #1  
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hydrogen

Does anyone know someone who reprograms computers for the diesel trucks. Need to adjust to run hydrogen. Computer compensates to much.


Thanks
ace062762 is offline  
Old 06-07-2008, 03:42 PM
  #2  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Va.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What year truck?
What type of system are you using and what is the gas production rate?
I haven't heard of anyone who will retard the timing for the computerized trucks...yet. Once people find a way to supply enough gas and the idea becomes more popular that will change. Right now there's no demand so theres no money in it. We are on our own for now.
billg is offline  
Old 06-09-2008, 02:57 PM
  #3  
Registered User
 
DBLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Plains Oregon
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How can a gas (H) that has less BTUs burn better then what we use right now? If you add H then you have less room for Oxygen in to mix with diesel in your cylinders. With less Oxygen you can't get a full burn of the fuel mix in each cylinder.
DBLR is offline  
Old 06-09-2008, 04:52 PM
  #4  
DTR's 'Wrench thrower...' And he aims for the gusto...
 
Raspy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Smith Valley, NV (sometimes Redwood City, CA)
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DBLR View Post
How can a gas (H) that has less BTUs burn better then what we use right now? If you add H then you have less room for Oxygen in to mix with diesel in your cylinders. With less Oxygen you can't get a full burn of the fuel mix in each cylinder.
Maybe the answer is something like this:

1. I haven't heard anyone say that H burns "better" than diesel. Maybe just cleaner. It doesn't matter if it has lower BTUs unles you are going for maximum HP. It would only be an advantage if it was way cheaper to use.
2. There is always an excess of oxygen in the cylinder during combustion in a diesel unless it is running at full power and pouring out smoke.

I'm not saying H is good, just answering your questions. I cannot see how H will ever be a practical "fuel". It's an energy storage system that is derived from water or fossil fuels and takes a lot of energy to produce, store and presssurize. It leaks out of any container and is outrageously hard to make into a liquid.
Raspy is offline  
Old 06-09-2008, 06:41 PM
  #5  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Va.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hydrogen does not replace diesel or oxygen, the H2 generators makes HHO and doesn't displace enough air to worry about. It is used as a booster. Diesel burns around 4000 ft per second and hydrogen burns at 38,000 ft per second. The idea is to supply just enough hydrogen (4% to 7%) to help make a more efficient burn in the cylinder rather than in the catalytic converter. As the diesel burns more efficiently, the computer sees that it doesn't need as much fuel to do the same amount of work. This is not new. It's been around since the mid to late 60's. Fuel was cheap so it never caught on, and was forgotten until the price went through the roof. They were using tanks with compressed hydrogen. I don't believe the little canisters with ss bolts or the mason jars with ss wire make anywhere near enough gas. It's going to take people with new ideas working with new materials to get this working. But if we all stand around crying about the price of fuel and doing nothing we will get nowhere. If we wait on the government or big business to save us we will always be paying through the nose. We will learn by trial and error what works and what doesn't. It beats standing on the side lines and waiting for someone else to fix my problem.
billg is offline  
Old 06-10-2008, 08:36 AM
  #6  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Barnesville MN
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than what you get out of it. If this was such a good idea this would be more mainstream and not guys selling them out of thier garage on ebay.
bhaugen is offline  
Old 06-10-2008, 10:44 AM
  #7  
Registered User
 
DBLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Plains Oregon
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bhaugen View Post
It takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than what you get out of it. If this was such a good idea this would be more mainstream and not guys selling them out of thier garage on ebay.
I agree with you.

billg,

You can not compare compressed liquid Hydrogen with the HHO stuff being sold to uninformed people. My self I have yet to see proof that adding/mixing HHO (that is being sold all over the internet) with diesel will make the burn in the cylinders more efficient. I've seen several guys on Cummins Forums say they bought the HHO Mag set up and installed it. Yet not one of them that I am aware of have posted back that it works. So far the only ones who claim to get fantastic fuel mileage increase from HHO are the ones who sell it or the directions on how to make one. It would be great if it would work as claimed but at this time it does not.

JMHO
DBLR is offline  
Old 06-10-2008, 01:48 PM
  #8  
Registered User
 
jriggs_18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sufficent amounts of HHO can be made using very little Current (amps) in fact less than an 1A can be used to make roughly 10X's more HHO than a conventional unit that uses 13A using electrolysis. its all in the method you chose to do it.... and the best or most efficent way isnt how most HHO units do it
jriggs_18 is offline  
Old 06-10-2008, 02:02 PM
  #9  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Barnesville MN
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jriggs_18 View Post
Sufficent amounts of HHO can be made using very little Current (amps) in fact less than an 1A can be used to make roughly 10X's more HHO than a conventional unit that uses 13A using electrolysis. its all in the method you chose to do it.... and the best or most efficent way isnt how most HHO units do it
I'm sorry, but if that were the case you just solved the whole energy problem.
bhaugen is offline  
Old 06-10-2008, 04:51 PM
  #10  
Registered User
 
JP-4.5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mass.
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Maybe they have and the oil companies keep killing the plan?

I have a question on HHO gas. If this is piped into the intake pre-turbo so it can be drawn into the system. Will the intake heater ignite this? I have read posts on other forums and several people have stated they would not do this because of BOOM if the heater comes on? How is propane any different than this HHO gas would be in regard to the heater igniting it? I do plan on building a small HHO generator.. Test it outside of the truck to see how much current required and how much gas can be created. Sounds like it may be a great way to lower my diesel consumption. It will probably be a couple hundred dollars to make a nice setup. If it does work it will be well worth it. I may want to look for a gas furnace intead of a oil furnace if it can produce enough gas.

I have to say it is very interesting reading the various systems that are currently being used. It would be great to see another choice other than oil.
JP-4.5 is offline  
Old 06-10-2008, 06:09 PM
  #11  
Registered User
 
jriggs_18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bhaugen View Post
I'm sorry, but if that were the case you just solved the whole energy problem.

Ever hear of Stan Meyer? Yea come to think of that, what ever became of him? (hes dead) No, I havent solved the energy crisis, but I have seen less than 1A create loads of Hydrogen, Meyers patent also expired about 1 year ago, and there are already units being made that utilize his technology and do in fact work, yes Ive seen it with my own eyes and No I dont work for any company that sells them. Many people have closed minds when it comes to this technology, and thats ok. I havent made my dime on this technology, so for all you people who wonder whether it works...just keep wondering patiently. And just in case you are wondering, no I dont care to share how, or why Meyer Fuel Cells work. Im sure there are plenty of other highly intelligent people on this site that know as much as I do, and then some about Meyers and what he did.
jriggs_18 is offline  
Old 06-10-2008, 10:22 PM
  #12  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Va.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
DBLR
Where did liquid hydrogen come from? The reference to the tank of “Compressed hydrogen” is how it was done successfully. As I stated in my post I don't believe the little canisters work. I tried that a couple of years ago. I used a computer program to monitor the changes in the engine and saw nothing when they were hooked up. The ones being sold on e-bay and on the web are a joke. They make a little HHO gas and a lot of heat. There are a lot of people selling junk trying to take advantage of peoples ignorance on the subject.
With that said, there are people who are making progress in this field. They are not where we need to be but they have been getting better. We can not give up because of Michael Faraday's findings in the mid 1800s. That was with 1800s materials and knowledge of electronics(straight D.C.). Science has made great strides in electronics and material science. What was true then might not be true with the new materials and electronics. The more we work at it the better we will get. I don't see waiting for big brother to bail me out as an option. The more people with new ideas the better.

JP-4.5
You don't introduce either gas at start up. You let the engine warm up first. Then introduce the gas while under load. That is when you would get the benefit. The guys using propane for racing would use it differently than us. We want just enough gas to get the diesel burning efficiently. Our application would require a lot less gas.

Jriggs_18
I read a couple of his patents. They provide some interesting reading. I've seen several of his interviews before he was killed. And for those who don't know him the US military and NASA was working with him before he was killed. You can get copies of his patents on the web with a little searching.
billg is offline  
Old 06-11-2008, 05:41 AM
  #13  
Registered User
 
JP-4.5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mass.
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
billg,

Where on the diesels are they adding the HHO gas? I have read to add it pre-turbo because it is low pressure. What would the typical pressures be from a home made generator? From my reading I am seeing 25-65 lbs quoted from different places. I am still in the research side in regards to ever using this on my truck. I want to build a small H generator and do some testing. I would like to be able to use the HHO gas for more than just helping MPG with my truck. Would be great if this could fuel my BBQ or even some type of space heater/furnace for the house? If I ever add this to the truck I will have some interlock to turn off the grid heaters.

Have you used this on a diesel truck? What year? What were your results? Any lessons I can learn from your findings?

Thanks
JP-4.5 is offline  
Old 06-12-2008, 08:35 PM
  #14  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Va.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Most people are adding it before the turbo.
The only way the little electrolyzers could reach 25psi is to block the opening. The one I tried to measure was lucky to get a measurement in the “in wc” while operating. The most efficient electrolysis units (series cell) that are operating at the amperages or trucks can safely put out are only producing about 2+ liters per minute that would be 1.4 liters of hydrogen and .6 liters of oxygen. I do not believe this is enough for our trucks. The guys that have done it say you need 4% to 7% hydrogen. A 5.9 at 1500 rpm would need about 354 liters a minute or 12.5 cubic ft. that is a 3/16” tube @10psi. The little units come up a bit short.
I temporarily hooked up one to monitor the engine with a computer to see if it had an effect. I monitored engine load and rpm for any changes. I turned the unit on and off to see if it changed anything but nothing seemed to change.
It would take quite a large unit for a BBQ and a bigger one for a furnace.
Lessons: The little electric units are fun to play with but that is it for now. If you plan to experiment with this be sure to build a bubbler or get a flash back arrester. The gas these things make is very explosive and can hurt you. Learn the safety precautions first.
Here is a couple of sites to check out.
http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/

http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/ind...752f&board=3.0
billg is offline  
Old 06-22-2008, 10:35 PM
  #15  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Va.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I screwed up the calculation of hydrogen required above. Here is the proper formula to figure CFM

C.F.M.=(R.P.M. x C.I.D. x Vol. Eff.)/3456

Volumetric Efficiency
Diesel Engines
Naturally aspirated..........= .85
Turbocharged.................=1.60
Turbocharged- aftercooled....=1.85

Gasoline Engines - up to 2500 r.p.m........= .80
2500 to 3000 r.p.m.........= .75
3000 to 4000 r.p.m.........= .70

Here is a good site to help convert from one unit of measure to another.
http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/volume

So a 5.9 liter (360 cid) would need 11.56 cubic feet or 327.3 liters of hydrogen a minute. That is still a 3/16” tube at about 10 psi.
billg is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Hydrogen


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.