did all the tree huggers die? Explain
12-09-2008, 10:05 PM
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did all the tree huggers die? Explain
Back in the middle of '08 I remember several postings blaming the EPA for the high fuel prices because of the lack of refining and the high cost of making fuels cleaner. A lot of the posts were blaming everything but greedy Big OIL. The poor oil companies must be really hurting now, awwhhh, that's so sad.
What happened? Did all the tree huggers die or did 20-30 new refineries just all of a sudden get built and started. Are we all of a sudden drilling more? I filled up for $2.19/gallon today. $2.50 cheaper than four months ago. Let's just face we're at the mercy of a few Big companies and countries that work with OPEC and charge what they want when they want. No one but the extreme upper level mgmt of these companies really knows what is going on.
Can anyone really explain this fluctuation? I know speculators cause damage but who pulls their strings and who are they?
Thank god "drill baby drill" got "beat baby beat". I guess the huge price hike didn't get them what they wanted so they decided to ease up a little. I have no idea. Hopefully it will last, at least until they get greedy again or until they want to drill in my back yard again.
What happened? Did all the tree huggers die or did 20-30 new refineries just all of a sudden get built and started. Are we all of a sudden drilling more? I filled up for $2.19/gallon today. $2.50 cheaper than four months ago. Let's just face we're at the mercy of a few Big companies and countries that work with OPEC and charge what they want when they want. No one but the extreme upper level mgmt of these companies really knows what is going on.
Can anyone really explain this fluctuation? I know speculators cause damage but who pulls their strings and who are they?
Thank god "drill baby drill" got "beat baby beat". I guess the huge price hike didn't get them what they wanted so they decided to ease up a little. I have no idea. Hopefully it will last, at least until they get greedy again or until they want to drill in my back yard again.
12-09-2008, 11:27 PM
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Price drop is due to global recession. Supply vs demand, with a significant drop in demand due to the recession. Price has dropped, and even though OPEC has tried to drop the amount of oil they produce, their greed (and debts) make dropping production almost impossible. They need the income from the oil, and since they get less per barrel, most will want to produce more to make more money, not produce less and make less money....
12-09-2008, 11:42 PM
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How about demand dropping................price per barrel then dropping.........look in the mirror and quit blaming big oil. It's all big oil huh.
That's bologney. Come on now...has demand really dropped that much. Enough for it to come down $100 a barrell in 6 weeks. Sure it may have dropped a little. When the price jumped to almost $5 a gallon in 3 months did demand just all of sudden increase for the 2-3 months prior? Just another excuse... stop puckering up to big oil and admit it, you know they own all of us. They charge what they want
12-10-2008, 12:00 AM
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Where do you get your facts. How much has demand went down?
Sorry for thinking that people might need heating oil in the wintertime. Maybe I have my seasons mixed up, I guess I'll go turn the air conditioning up. Sure demand has dropped A Little, but $100/barrell worth. That's inexplainable.
Sorry for thinking that people might need heating oil in the wintertime. Maybe I have my seasons mixed up, I guess I'll go turn the air conditioning up. Sure demand has dropped A Little, but $100/barrell worth. That's inexplainable.
12-10-2008, 01:00 AM
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No not really,
You have to look at this on a global scale, not just from the US. In the United States and Britain, industrial production is nearly flat - only 0.2 percent higher than it was a year ago. In many other countries, however, industrial production has dropped over the past 12 months. It's down by 0.7 percent in Japan, 1.1 percent in Austria, 2.5 percent in Italy and Denmark, 2.9 percent in Canada, 5.4 percent in Greece, 5.7 percent in Singapore and 13.3 percent in Spain (these numbers are from early summer, much worse now!!).
Since summer, industrial production also fell in India and China. Shrinking industry around the world shrinks demand for energy in general - and for oil in particular.
When the price of anything gets unbearably high, it discourages demand and forces people to look elsewhere. The resulting drop in sales, in turn, causes inventories to pile up and the price to come down (Supply vs. demand).
Additionally, speculation in the oil market probably caused over-inflated price per barrel this summer. How many people did you hear thinking that oil prices could hit $200 a barrel? Like the housing market, this also was causal in the rapid decrease in prices once the market adjusted to the economic recession.
You have to look at this on a global scale, not just from the US. In the United States and Britain, industrial production is nearly flat - only 0.2 percent higher than it was a year ago. In many other countries, however, industrial production has dropped over the past 12 months. It's down by 0.7 percent in Japan, 1.1 percent in Austria, 2.5 percent in Italy and Denmark, 2.9 percent in Canada, 5.4 percent in Greece, 5.7 percent in Singapore and 13.3 percent in Spain (these numbers are from early summer, much worse now!!).
Since summer, industrial production also fell in India and China. Shrinking industry around the world shrinks demand for energy in general - and for oil in particular.
When the price of anything gets unbearably high, it discourages demand and forces people to look elsewhere. The resulting drop in sales, in turn, causes inventories to pile up and the price to come down (Supply vs. demand).
Additionally, speculation in the oil market probably caused over-inflated price per barrel this summer. How many people did you hear thinking that oil prices could hit $200 a barrel? Like the housing market, this also was causal in the rapid decrease in prices once the market adjusted to the economic recession.
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12-10-2008, 04:42 AM
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You know the whole supply and demand debate is good in school when you learn it. But then most people get out in the real world and realize that with a commodity that the majority of the world needs, the people that control it can do what they want with it. But if someone wants to research this and give me solid articles and numbers proving me wrong then that would be cool.
Ryan
Ryan
12-10-2008, 04:52 AM
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No matter what, OPEC still control the prices with supply and demand. They cut supply, demand stays constant, price goes up. But since it sounds like you are out in the real world and have learned so much in your few years out of school, then you can let us all know. Let's here your background education and go research yourself....
12-10-2008, 05:35 AM
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I got a fresh idea.... Why don't all of you invest in BIG OIL a little to offset the price at the pump? If you were reaping some of the benefits of the "supply and demand" price hikes, maybe it would ease the pain when the price goes back up to $4.75 per gallon...
just my $.02
Hay
just my $.02
Hay
12-10-2008, 07:12 AM
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Demand dropping in winter time? I guess people are putting biodiesel in their home oil tanks.
That's bologney. Come on now...has demand really dropped that much. Enough for it to come down $100 a barrell in 6 weeks. Sure it may have dropped a little. When the price jumped to almost $5 a gallon in 3 months did demand just all of sudden increase for the 2-3 months prior? Just another excuse... stop puckering up to big oil and admit it, you know they own all of us. They charge what they want
That's bologney. Come on now...has demand really dropped that much. Enough for it to come down $100 a barrell in 6 weeks. Sure it may have dropped a little. When the price jumped to almost $5 a gallon in 3 months did demand just all of sudden increase for the 2-3 months prior? Just another excuse... stop puckering up to big oil and admit it, you know they own all of us. They charge what they want
12-10-2008, 09:49 AM
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Hey thanks guys I appreciate the info. But It's still a mystery. I know demand and global demand is down... but this much. Here's a link to a US site that shows the total gasoline sales for the US which pretty much also illustrates demand.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/c100000001m.htm
Sure, it shows that demand is down but look at the months of April-Aug. when the barrell price was $130. Total US sales were actually down during those months and the months preceeding it. The sales/demand for these months are also lower than the same months in 07' when the barrell price was avg. $80 cheaper (apr-aug.).
So from Apr-Aug of 08' demand/sales were down and the barrel/pump price was $135/$5. The same exact months the year before demand/sales was much higher and the price was $60/$3.00. It just doesn't make sense.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/c100000001m.htm
Sure, it shows that demand is down but look at the months of April-Aug. when the barrell price was $130. Total US sales were actually down during those months and the months preceeding it. The sales/demand for these months are also lower than the same months in 07' when the barrell price was avg. $80 cheaper (apr-aug.).
So from Apr-Aug of 08' demand/sales were down and the barrel/pump price was $135/$5. The same exact months the year before demand/sales was much higher and the price was $60/$3.00. It just doesn't make sense.
12-10-2008, 10:10 AM
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Again, not demand in the US, its worldwide. China's increase in fuel usage has grown exponentially in the past decade. US sales are just one piece...
China's consumption of oil products composed of gasoline, diesel and kerosene rose by 16.5 percent between 2007 to 2008 to 52.73 million tons in the Jan-Apr months, and crude oil, rose by eight percent to 91.8 million tons.
The growth of oil products consumption was a record high and much higher than the same period of last year, which was only 3.6 percent, said Shu Zhaoxia, professor of the Economics and Development Research Institute of China Petrochemical Corporation (Sinopec Group). Sinopec Group is China's top oil refiner.
The growth of crude oil consumption was 2.5 percentage points higher than a 2007.
Numbers here are showing that China is hitting historic levels for its demand for fossil fuels. Remember what Bejing looked like this summer even after the attempted to curtail the emissions from the factories, plants, and vehicles. Billions of people are starting to want those vehicles which just 20 years ago would have been impossible for most to purchase...
China's consumption of oil products composed of gasoline, diesel and kerosene rose by 16.5 percent between 2007 to 2008 to 52.73 million tons in the Jan-Apr months, and crude oil, rose by eight percent to 91.8 million tons.
The growth of oil products consumption was a record high and much higher than the same period of last year, which was only 3.6 percent, said Shu Zhaoxia, professor of the Economics and Development Research Institute of China Petrochemical Corporation (Sinopec Group). Sinopec Group is China's top oil refiner.
The growth of crude oil consumption was 2.5 percentage points higher than a 2007.
Numbers here are showing that China is hitting historic levels for its demand for fossil fuels. Remember what Bejing looked like this summer even after the attempted to curtail the emissions from the factories, plants, and vehicles. Billions of people are starting to want those vehicles which just 20 years ago would have been impossible for most to purchase...