California Diesel Prices
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Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 51
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From: San Jose California
California Diesel Prices
We paid the extra cost for a diesel truck because of power, torque, reliability, and neat sound of the engine, but many of us hoped to recoupe some of that extra cost in better fuel mileage, and less expensive fuel. Diesel is after all a by-product of gasoline and costs far far less to produce than gas. Yet here in California the price of diesel is alway MORE than the low octane gasoline.
Any ideas on when this unfair treatment to those of us here in California will end?
See this link for some info I found on this.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/140610.html
Any ideas on when this unfair treatment to those of us here in California will end?
See this link for some info I found on this.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/140610.html
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 0
Likes: 2
From: Port Deposit, MD
Originally Posted by FamilyDiesel
We paid the extra cost for a diesel truck because of power, torque, reliability, and neat sound of the engine, but many of us hoped to recoupe some of that extra cost in better fuel mileage, and less expensive fuel. Diesel is after all a by-product of gasoline and costs far far less to produce than gas. Yet here in California the price of diesel is alway MORE than the low octane gasoline.
Any ideas on when this unfair treatment to those of us here in California will end?
See this link for some info I found on this.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/140610.html
Any ideas on when this unfair treatment to those of us here in California will end?
See this link for some info I found on this.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/140610.html
I'll take a stab at this one. It's pretty simple, uh....... We're getting RIPPED OFF!
I too thought of the fuel savings, not just in increased mileage, but in the fact that diesel was 25c a gallon cheaper than gas back in Oct. 2003 when I got my truck. I challenge you guy's to show me another example of this (that mkaes sense) in the "global economy".
I suppose that 10Kt Gold could just BECOME more valuable than Platinium too huh??
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Port Deposit, MD
Originally Posted by ares
never, carb will always be there to punish people in the name of the environment.
5 minutes to pour 5 gallons of fuel, ***?
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 319
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From: NORTH SAN DIEGO COUNTY, CA
cheaper diesel
just pulled my airstream from detroit to socal and i will tell you this. for the whole trip until i got into utah diesel fuel was cheaper than unleaded.
it boils down to this, we are being gouged for living in the golden state. we are all rich dontcha know.
yeah, right!
we pay a premium for living here with the clean air and earth first nutz and the only thing one can do about it is to put in another fuel tank in the bed of the CTD and go to tijuana once a month for th $1.78 diesel fuel.
good news is that in socal our winter heating costs are less.
david
in socal
it boils down to this, we are being gouged for living in the golden state. we are all rich dontcha know.
yeah, right!
we pay a premium for living here with the clean air and earth first nutz and the only thing one can do about it is to put in another fuel tank in the bed of the CTD and go to tijuana once a month for th $1.78 diesel fuel.
good news is that in socal our winter heating costs are less.
david
in socal
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 14,672
Likes: 9
From: Montana
My feeling is higher diesel prices subsidize lower gasoline prices. Add 25¢ to the price of diesel and subtract 25¢ off the price of gas equals the same profit with fewer upset customers. Also since most diesel use is commercial the fuel price doesn't matter to most users since the increased price will just be tacked on to the price of the goods/services.
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Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 570
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From: alabama
infidel hit it on the head i think,,subsidizing..the independents are done,its all big business now,they dont care what the owner pays;.in two days here in bama,diesel has gone from the low stations at 2.65 to the high stations at 3.39.i saw it at one station today,for,get this,,3.73 a gallon.the lowest,which was within 11 miles of the 3.73 station,was still at 2.75........this is bullsh**......of course,talladega is this weekend,so it always goes up now............bama
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From: Fair Oaks CA
That article is not correct in what will happen in 06 , all 48 states will be using the same diesel fuel, ULSD Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel , because all 07 diesel engine will require it to run and the Catylst will have a long life without replacement or cleaning. It will be interesting to see what the prices will be when that happens.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,232
Likes: 1
From: Sacramento CA
I have to agree with P.J. We are getting royaly screwed!!!
I have found no lower price than $3.09 here in the Sacramento area for just plain old #2.
Granted I get just under 19 mpg for a 1 ton truck at 70 mph but even so, I still think that the prices are off the hook!!!
Rick
I have found no lower price than $3.09 here in the Sacramento area for just plain old #2.
Granted I get just under 19 mpg for a 1 ton truck at 70 mph but even so, I still think that the prices are off the hook!!!
Rick
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deisel oprices are higher in ca . due to the ca. air resources board ... ca. requires low sulfer deisel.. and will not let it be imported into ca. .. ill post more in a few .. i have a whole rant me and my freind did for a reporter in orange county ca. never got published
complete with link to member of the ca. resources board and thier back grounds.. it quite
interesting to see .
So I've been wondering for a while now (pretty much since I started driving
a diesel), why the price of a lower grade of gasoline that's cut with oil
would cost FAR more then the cost of gas that's more expensive to refine.
Some info I read tonight, check the end of the mail for a couple of linked
articles
68.2% of the freight tonnage in america is moved by trucks
13.4% is moved by rail (mostly bulk freight)
the rest of the country is observing a price increase due to a lack of
supply, blamed on weather in the gulf coast (this was the excuse TWO years
ago)
california is observing a price increase due to an standard set forth in
1993 by the refineries that is a 'california only' mix, mostly it means it's
low in sulfur content. This agreement says that diesel refined outside of
california, cant be sold here.
California Air Resources Board (CARB) has said that this year they will
adopt a new diesel standard, oh by the way they haven't yet released this
standard.
why?
because of ab679, this bill says:
"The state board shall not adopt any regulation that excludes the
importation of compliant diesel fuel by entities that do not have refineries
in California."
In california, we have to pass a LAW that says CARB won't ban diesel (AND
ONLY DIESEL) fuel that meets the requirements for california's diesel
standards.
What kind of ******** is this?
more fun, on the 15th, in diamond bar is a meeting of carb, on their agenda
is this gem:
" Public Hearing to Consider the Proposed Modification of the Diesel
Particulate Control Measure for On-Road Heavy-Duty Residential and
Commercial Solid Waste Collection Vehicles: Fleet Rule for the South Coast
Air Quality Management District "
Which REQUIRES the purchase of "lowest emitting trucks available" by these
companies.
A rep of the california trucking association has said, "The prohibition on
the import of compliant fuel was and is an unholy alliance between the
government and a handful of California refineries, and penalizes the
truckers based within the state with upwards of 60 cents per gallon price
difference," and, ac roding to a guy who SELLS these newer and more
efficient/clean trucks, ""Higher CARB diesel costs have caused a slowdown in
California truckers' replacement of their older vehicles"
No mention of ab679 or the diesel standard that's on it's way, the one that
will prevent, after the passage of ab679 (what assemblyman wants to be the
guy who votes for higher gas prices right now?), the import of diesel from
outside of california. What effect will this have? A closed market in
california that allows the refineries to set ANY price for diesel they want
because they know there wont be any competition.
Just thought I'd share with you all some of the stuff I read about.
Here are a couple of the shorter articles, for fun, go look at the bios of
the people on CARB and see if you think any of them have the citizens of
california in their best interests...
http://uspolitics.about.com/b/a/122542.htm
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/140610.html
complete with link to member of the ca. resources board and thier back grounds.. it quite
interesting to see .
So I've been wondering for a while now (pretty much since I started driving
a diesel), why the price of a lower grade of gasoline that's cut with oil
would cost FAR more then the cost of gas that's more expensive to refine.
Some info I read tonight, check the end of the mail for a couple of linked
articles
68.2% of the freight tonnage in america is moved by trucks
13.4% is moved by rail (mostly bulk freight)
the rest of the country is observing a price increase due to a lack of
supply, blamed on weather in the gulf coast (this was the excuse TWO years
ago)
california is observing a price increase due to an standard set forth in
1993 by the refineries that is a 'california only' mix, mostly it means it's
low in sulfur content. This agreement says that diesel refined outside of
california, cant be sold here.
California Air Resources Board (CARB) has said that this year they will
adopt a new diesel standard, oh by the way they haven't yet released this
standard.
why?
because of ab679, this bill says:
"The state board shall not adopt any regulation that excludes the
importation of compliant diesel fuel by entities that do not have refineries
in California."
In california, we have to pass a LAW that says CARB won't ban diesel (AND
ONLY DIESEL) fuel that meets the requirements for california's diesel
standards.
What kind of ******** is this?
more fun, on the 15th, in diamond bar is a meeting of carb, on their agenda
is this gem:
" Public Hearing to Consider the Proposed Modification of the Diesel
Particulate Control Measure for On-Road Heavy-Duty Residential and
Commercial Solid Waste Collection Vehicles: Fleet Rule for the South Coast
Air Quality Management District "
Which REQUIRES the purchase of "lowest emitting trucks available" by these
companies.
A rep of the california trucking association has said, "The prohibition on
the import of compliant fuel was and is an unholy alliance between the
government and a handful of California refineries, and penalizes the
truckers based within the state with upwards of 60 cents per gallon price
difference," and, ac roding to a guy who SELLS these newer and more
efficient/clean trucks, ""Higher CARB diesel costs have caused a slowdown in
California truckers' replacement of their older vehicles"
No mention of ab679 or the diesel standard that's on it's way, the one that
will prevent, after the passage of ab679 (what assemblyman wants to be the
guy who votes for higher gas prices right now?), the import of diesel from
outside of california. What effect will this have? A closed market in
california that allows the refineries to set ANY price for diesel they want
because they know there wont be any competition.
Just thought I'd share with you all some of the stuff I read about.
Here are a couple of the shorter articles, for fun, go look at the bios of
the people on CARB and see if you think any of them have the citizens of
california in their best interests...
http://uspolitics.about.com/b/a/122542.htm
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...18/140610.html
Administrator
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,084
Likes: 235
From: Southern California
Hey a few days ago didn't P. Bush say he was going to do something about the high price of fuel? I am sure he did..
Last night I took on $50.00 of fuel @2.99/ gallon and then tonight when I went past the station, it was $3.49/ gallon and that is a Valero station.
Local 76 station went from $3.07 to $3.39 since this A.M.
So now what gives?
My son has a friend who works for a refinery here in the area and Sunday, he was there all day because of another fire.
Why are the refineries having so many fires now?
California is getting screwed.
Last night I took on $50.00 of fuel @2.99/ gallon and then tonight when I went past the station, it was $3.49/ gallon and that is a Valero station.
Local 76 station went from $3.07 to $3.39 since this A.M.
So now what gives?
My son has a friend who works for a refinery here in the area and Sunday, he was there all day because of another fire.
Why are the refineries having so many fires now?
California is getting screwed.
Administrator / Scooter Bum
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,086
Likes: 49
From: Central VA
California has partially screwed themselves by passing all the "Greenie" laws that dictate that only "special" fuel blends can be sold in their state.
In Addition....this oughta get y'all going.........
In Addition....this oughta get y'all going.........
http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20...ghdieselprices
Mon Aug 8, 7:55 AM ET
A refinery outage and ill-timed shipments of diesel from California to Chile are pushing prices of the vital fuel past the $3-a-gallon mark and threatening to crimp the state's economic growth as truckers, farmers and other big users struggle to cope.
................
That production glitch wouldn't have hit the market so hard if oil traders, faced with a surplus of diesel in June, hadn't sold large quantities of the fuel to foreign buyers just weeks before the El Segundo fire.
"There was too much diesel on the West Coast" a month or so ago, said Carl Boyett, chief executive of Boyett Petroleum in Modesto. Then three companies sent diesel cargos to other markets, all around the same time, he said.
Vitol, an international oil trader, was one of the exporters. Another was ConocoPhillips, according to Boyett and others. Both of those shipments ended up in Chile. The third company, BP, exported diesel from its Cherry Point, Wash., refinery to Mexico, but the fuel was too high in sulfur to qualify for use in California or Washington, according to spokesman Phil Cochrane.
The Vitol and ConocoPhillips shipments that left San Francisco this summer contained ultra-low-sulfur fuel that could have been sold here, said Roberts of Tower Energy. Former Vitol trader Andy Lipow estimated that the shipments totaled about 21 million gallons of diesel — equal to about 3 1/2 days of typical consumption in California.
ConocoPhillips couldn't be reached for comment. Vitol, a Dutch-Swiss company whose U.S. headquarters are in Houston, said the shipment to Chile made financial sense at the time.
At current prices, said Vitol Vice President Jeff Hepper, "I wish [those barrels] were still on the West Coast."
So do a lot of people.
Because of its limited production, Chevron has been selling diesel only to its own stations and to customers with supply contracts, forcing many regular customers without contracts to find alternative sources for fuel. One of those cut off by Chevron was Pilot Travel Centers, a nationwide company that has eight large truck stops in California.
"We've had minor outages," said Bill Dibble, Pilot's manager of supply and trading for the West. "But the bigger problem has been the prices. Our cash outlay [for fuel] is twice what it was — if we spent $1 before, we've got to put out $2 now to make 10 cents a gallon."
In the meantime, California refiners other than Chevron can be expected to show extra-healthy profits for however long the diesel problem persists, said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service, a New Jersey firm that tracks petroleum prices.
"It's profitable to make diesel everywhere in this country," he said. "But in California, it's really off the charts."
With the retail prices already breaching the $3-a-gallon level and money to be made, Kloza and others said, there are plenty of opportunists trying to get cargos to California before the prices retreat. It can take weeks for a tanker to reach California, however, and it's unclear how many tankers will come, when they'll arrive — and how soon diesel prices might come down.
"There is genuine concern at the moment," Kloza said. "I've got a hunch my nectarines from California are going to cost a bit more in the next few months."
Mon Aug 8, 7:55 AM ET
A refinery outage and ill-timed shipments of diesel from California to Chile are pushing prices of the vital fuel past the $3-a-gallon mark and threatening to crimp the state's economic growth as truckers, farmers and other big users struggle to cope.
................
That production glitch wouldn't have hit the market so hard if oil traders, faced with a surplus of diesel in June, hadn't sold large quantities of the fuel to foreign buyers just weeks before the El Segundo fire.
"There was too much diesel on the West Coast" a month or so ago, said Carl Boyett, chief executive of Boyett Petroleum in Modesto. Then three companies sent diesel cargos to other markets, all around the same time, he said.
Vitol, an international oil trader, was one of the exporters. Another was ConocoPhillips, according to Boyett and others. Both of those shipments ended up in Chile. The third company, BP, exported diesel from its Cherry Point, Wash., refinery to Mexico, but the fuel was too high in sulfur to qualify for use in California or Washington, according to spokesman Phil Cochrane.
The Vitol and ConocoPhillips shipments that left San Francisco this summer contained ultra-low-sulfur fuel that could have been sold here, said Roberts of Tower Energy. Former Vitol trader Andy Lipow estimated that the shipments totaled about 21 million gallons of diesel — equal to about 3 1/2 days of typical consumption in California.
ConocoPhillips couldn't be reached for comment. Vitol, a Dutch-Swiss company whose U.S. headquarters are in Houston, said the shipment to Chile made financial sense at the time.
At current prices, said Vitol Vice President Jeff Hepper, "I wish [those barrels] were still on the West Coast."
So do a lot of people.
Because of its limited production, Chevron has been selling diesel only to its own stations and to customers with supply contracts, forcing many regular customers without contracts to find alternative sources for fuel. One of those cut off by Chevron was Pilot Travel Centers, a nationwide company that has eight large truck stops in California.
"We've had minor outages," said Bill Dibble, Pilot's manager of supply and trading for the West. "But the bigger problem has been the prices. Our cash outlay [for fuel] is twice what it was — if we spent $1 before, we've got to put out $2 now to make 10 cents a gallon."
In the meantime, California refiners other than Chevron can be expected to show extra-healthy profits for however long the diesel problem persists, said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service, a New Jersey firm that tracks petroleum prices.
"It's profitable to make diesel everywhere in this country," he said. "But in California, it's really off the charts."
With the retail prices already breaching the $3-a-gallon level and money to be made, Kloza and others said, there are plenty of opportunists trying to get cargos to California before the prices retreat. It can take weeks for a tanker to reach California, however, and it's unclear how many tankers will come, when they'll arrive — and how soon diesel prices might come down.
"There is genuine concern at the moment," Kloza said. "I've got a hunch my nectarines from California are going to cost a bit more in the next few months."
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 14,672
Likes: 9
From: Montana
Originally Posted by JohnCA58
That article is not correct in what will happen in 06 , all 48 states will be using the same diesel fuel, ULSD Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel , because all 07 diesel engine will require it to run and the Catylst will have a long life without replacement or cleaning. It will be interesting to see what the prices will be when that happens.
Engine manufacturers who have planned for years will be extremely upset if ULSD doesn't come on line when it's supposed to. Their new engines won't run on the current low sulfur diesel.
My guess on whether ULSD becomes available when it's supposed to will depended on who has the most money to pay off politicians, the oil or auto industries.