DAT900

After gathering the opinions of several vehicle owners, the TTTPA Board of Directors voted to make the following changes to our 4x4 Diesel Class:
2.6 turbo
Hanging weights allowed
8500# weight limit
These changes are in effective immediately and will remain in effect for our 2008 season.
We will have a rules meeting each year and changes to rules will have to be approved by a majority vote.
It is my hope that these rule changes will give everyone a guide line to build by for the coming years.
The class that we offer will have a purse at all TTTPA sanctioned events. The minimum purse will be $500 and pay 7 places.
Our website, www.tttpa.com will be updated in the coming weeks and will reflex these changes. If you are planning on participating and have pictures of your vehicle at a pull and blowing smoke, please contact me and I will get these pictures added to our website.
We look forward to having this exciting class at our pulls.

Thank you
David Templeton
TTTPA President

HT3500

thanks for posting David, rules look good....one question are turbo bushings allowed for this class???

DAT900

It is my underatnding that they are. I'll make sure of that. It was discussed yesterday and I am near certain that it will be allowed.

turbos10

What about compound turbo trucks? Is there going to be some kind of open class? I know there are at least a couple around.

DAT900

Bushings will be allowed. As far as the compound turbo trucks, we can't make a class for 2. We will be happy to look at it in the future but for now we have to have a set of rules that folks can build to and get involved with. The more participation, the more say those puller have in setting the rules for their class in the years to come. The TTTPA board wants to have rules that the majority of the pullers want. We're committed to making this work but we realize we have to have a set of rules and not be changing them. Our sources tell us that the changes we've made are what the majority of the pullers would like to see. If this is not the case, then I highly reccomend that the pullers organize and get in contact with myself or another board member asap to present their case. I have already heard complaints about the 2.6 versus 2.8. We have to have a following of several trucks in order to make this a success. If there is a considerable amount of pullers that will commit to following our association if we make additional changes, then we will be more than happy to consider this. But once we post the rules on our website and start the season, those rules will remain in effect at least until the annual rules meeting if not longer. I strongly sugguest that action be taken very quickly if this is not what the majority is wanting. Otherwise, we will take what we have and make it the best class possible for the pullers and the spectators. We are very excited to add this class to our events and are very much looking forward to giving you guys a good place to run for a purse.
I have also heard some talk about safety equipment. We would be doing a great disservice to all pulllers and spectators everywhere if we did not strictly enforce this. I hope you all understand that.
I also hope that I haven't been too blunt on some of my explantions, but some of these points needed to be made.
If you have any questions at all, please don't hesitate to call or email me. My contact information can be found on our website. www.tttpa.com

Thanks
David Templeton
TTTPA President

turbos10

I am not pulling in the truck class so I dont want to sound like a nag....

But, the 2.6 single is REALLY limiting HP. While it will keep it competetive, I doubt you will have many dedicated pulling trucks since a 66mm turbo is still street truck range. I mean it is only 10mm over a factory HX35. I think if you want to limit it, you need to talk to Adam about what he found with the Hot Farm turbo selection process. While a little smaller, the hot cummins are very capable of running with something like the Garrett GT35 or 37 with a good clutch setup and enough fuel....which alot of these guys already have. I think Hot Farm is a GT37 or 42 with the small turbine housing. The pullers will have to decide what it should be, but a common turbo capable of a little more HP would make a better class.

Also, the compound turbo trucks are what will pull a crowd....which is what makes this work long term. Nothing against the singles, but if you can get a 2 stage compressor class you will generate alot more interest from spectators and it will still not be too wild. Everyone who has tryed it has been black balled because they are pulling with single turbo guys who say it is not fair....which it really isn't.....so make a class for the really hot trucks....

I dont want to come off as complaining, David, but I know you want this to go well as badly as anyone. Limiting to a small single turbo is like limiting a big block class to OEM block and heads because that is what everyone already has........ I know JDGNut(Bryan) is working on a compound truck and they would LOVE to have a place to pull it. I think Buck has one or two too?? What do you guys think?

If everyone is happy with the single class, tell me to hush. I just really like watching the hot trucks pull.

DAT900

I am ALL for the bigger horsepower! I'm all for "new and improved". This is the day and age of technology, let's use it..., is my attitude. (of course that attitude got me kicked out the class I built for... but we'll see who has the last laugh...
I was somewhat suprised to see the desire to go down in turbo size... that is why I said what I did about making it a 2.8 class. I don't know enough about diesel pickups, but I do know that we need a crowd pleasing class and that I want pullers who are committed to running with us. Would there be a any way to run a two small ones or one big one? Kinda give some guys an option? I'm also all for box turbos... take out some varibles and even the class up a bit.... Make it more competitive for everyone. It's fun to see several vehicles within inches of one another. It makes the pullers work harder at driving and keeps the crowd on the edge of their seats, never knowing who will win. We all have to remember that it is the spectators that allow us to pull for a purse, so keeping them happy is of utmost importance.
I would love to have two classes. Unfortunately, it makes it too hard to sell the shows... We could add a second class and split the purse money but I don't think the smaller guys would like that much at all.
So unless there is a big petition in the very near future, we will run what we have for the season. It is my sincere hope that at the next rules meeting, we will have enough participation from these pullers to know exactly what they want and hopefully be able to bump perforamce a bit for next year. True, you may have to downsize this year to fit the class and Some may see these rules as a bit of a set back. What it really is, is an opportunity to get involved on the ground floor. We just have to have the participation.
I have talked to Bryan and I hope that he will be able to be involved with us this year. I would like to hear more from some others, including Buck, on all this. Call me any time guys... If you don't get me, leave a message and I'll call you back. I'm really looking forward to this year and these trucks being a part of it!
Thanks.
David

NeedMoPower

While I'm not a fan of the new turbo rule, I accept it and understand you have to cater to the majority of the trucks. I would agree with turbos10 in saying 2.6 is too small for a "crowd pleaser" class. Instead of getting 5 strong trucks, I think there will be a class of 30 that takes all night to pull (like we have seen in past pulls) because that is a popular turbo for street trucks.

Bryan may be involved with you this year, but it will be without my truck. I would love to come and compete, but I'm not going to remove my twin turbo setup to run with a bunch of street trucks. My truck isnt a street truck and I dont want to run in a street truck class.

When Bryan said the TTTPA was going to pay out a diesel class this year, I loaded up my new engine and took it down to the machine shop so I could have it finished up in time....I just wish I would have known the rules before I spent that $$$

In closing, I think it's great that you are making a diesel class for guys to come pull. This will surely grow the sport in Texas and I will be sure to come out and watch.

Cody

JDGnut

One truck went up for sale yesterday, because of the rules...

As Cody stated above.. we are going to continue down the path we have chosen.. even if that means out on our own... We really are at the point, and have spend the time/money (Cody's money) that we are not going to turn back.. We'll run with the street trucks if we have to.. (after the TTTPA events) we were really looking at running in the 6800lb class with the gasser trucks & tractors, which was also dropped for the 08 season..
If Cody's truck is not there.. I probably will not be either..

The problem with getting the pullers to vote on the rules.. most that will have 2.6 trucks will not be trucks that will setup to Super street level class. They will want to continue with the small charger class, because that is what they have built and are setup to run.. Thoses that have those level of trucks, will not join if there is no place for them in the organization.. (the problem you had for the meeting at the end of last year.. no one was going to join to vote on rules for a class, that might not exist.)

I think you will have a class that will have trucks entered in this class, every where you go..

Bryan

JDGnut

I have been asked..
Can water injection be used???

turbos10

Cody and Brian are dead on. I come to these pulls mainly to watch(strictly now since there is no class for my junk), and I am bored to tears watching all the guys with ebox upgrades and no pulling experience run down the track. In fact, I usually dont even stay because the real trucks are dead last. I REALLY think that there should be heavy discussion on having a large single or twins and having full blown pulling rigs. Then, let the street trucks pull for $15/ hook after TTTPA. The street trucks kindof ruin the pull from a spectator perspective if they are not at the end.

If you go with a BIG box turbo for a single or primary in a compound you will limit power and limit participation.....which is good for this class. You need 5-10 good trucks, not 30-50 average trucks. I mean everyone who has a dodge now can rev it up and make a little smoke. I really think if you go with a GT42 or similiar(I just like that one) box charger, you will have ALOT better and FEWER trucks(which is good). A street truck simply will not spin a turbo that big and will not even be able to untrack the sled if they try. Everyone in the purse class will be forced to build a real puller. You will have all the trucks on par with the Hot Farm Tractor class for power. If you start with two, so be it. The others will come around soon enough. I have been thinking about selling my tractor to help fund a truck.....but with these rules I would rather pull antique open because they have a class this year.

However, I also fully understand your position with the TTTPA vote. I suffered through the cylinder head debate the first time and knew it would be a while before I was ever interested in membership. I suspect there are issues like that with this class as well.

bluechrome

What are the specs on a GT42? I ask beacuase there are a lot of guys running A5k's On the street around here 8500lbs Imo is heavy I can't fit 1300lbs of wieght on the front of mine. I think that's going to vive the duallys a huge advantage. Maybe I'm wrong. The 2.6 this year is goig to be insane The limits of a 66 Charger are to be found

JDGnut

On the GT 42 you can get different compressor housings and wheels.. 2.75, 3.00, and I'm sure bigger..
8500lbs.. on Cody's (NeedMoPower's) truck we would add 2500lbs..

DAT900

Okay guys... I understand your frustration.... but complaining is not going to change anything... If you want something different, its an option... but I can't go to the board of directors and say "change this, because a bunch of folks are complaing". If you want something different, get together, get it written down and get it to me with signatures of all those that we are going to be able to count on to be at a large majority of our hooks. No we don't need 30 in a class, but definately 5-10. I understand that bigger turbo's and or more of them will make for a better show, but not if there is only one or two of them there. Lack of equipment kills shows... in any class. The board is not completely opposed (I think I can speak for most of them) to change this before the 08 rules get posted. But I have to have something to take to them. You've got a little time here.... Probably a week, if there are enough that are committed to running and want something different, get it to me! The board will discuss and hopefully make the change. We just can't change something after it is set for the year. Certainly everyone understands that.
The reason we require people to be a member to vote is because joining shows some commitment. Unfortunately, until people join they have just a voice. I am trying to make your voices heard but without something in hand to show the rest of the directors, I really don't have leg to stand on. So, once again, if you want something different... get me something to work with. Quickly! In the words of Jerry Maquire "Help me, Help You!"

turbos10

Bout and inch off I think. I know there are 3.75 and 4" available. A rough rule of thumb to use for power ratings are 10HP/lb air, and you can get 12. The big GT42 will flow over 90lbs of air at 4:1 PR. Not too many street trucks can injest that much air and it would take alot of RPM or a second compressor to work very well at all.

Here is a compressor map for anyone interested. http://www.atpturbo.com/root/maps/gt42.htm

The GT series Garretts are very good performance turbos for the money. While not cheap, they are widely available. Adam Hampton runs one on his tractor and it works GREAT. He tryed several and the performance difference is night an day. The GT's will spool quick and smooth as well as make big power. His P-pumped DT466 is limited to 3000RPM and works great with the GT42. A 4000RPM cummins should perform very similiarly. It would probably also work well with an HX35 as the secondary compressor in a little lower RPM setup. I have seen dyno sheets(can't remember where) of a big Deere engine making over 2K torque and 1100HP with a single GT42. I think it was when Outlaw did testing for their turbo selection on the Hot Farm Class. They are using the GT42 last I heard.