Purplezr2

Temp should not matter much, the tanks have a heater loop with heated hoses. You get 1/2 to let the DEF Thaw out for use. We did some testing on this where I worked this summer.

Busboy

How do you refill your system when it's near empty and the supply you took with you is frozen?

Purplezr2

Ummm plan ahead, you get a lot of miles out of a tank, like 7000+ from what I have heard. I know on tractors you could get like weeks out of the tank if I remember correctly. If I remember correctly it doesn't freeze at straight 32 degrees. Its a bit lower, I could be wrong about this.

Busboy

The Cummins Q&A said the lowest freeze point is -11deg C 12degF that was with the best optimized 32.5% mix, they also said the DEF was a 2% fuel burn. Planning ahead is good if you fuel up at service stations all the time but if you are "in the field" (literally) and are fueling from tidy tanks and running the engine lots then you would need your own supply of DEF. I can't see it working for some in the remote colder climates without being on top of it all the time. They do make DEF delete kits though.

Blake Clark

If the DEF system does away with the EGR system then it will be an improvement. But the way I understand it, and I may be wrong, is that DEF is an exhaust aftertreatment. Which means that it would simply replace the diesel 4th (or 5th) injection event that is used to reduce the diesel particulates currently.

If that IS the case, and the EGR system remains, then you still have a diesel with the blacklung.

T210DRVR

Interesting reading about SCR technology. http://www.deere.com/en_US/rg/emissi.../ag/index.html

The article pertains to agriculture equipment that is also being forced to meet strict government air quality regulations.

Purplezr2

It is an Aftertreatment, but I would not look at it as an injection event, it is done downstream of the turbo, and has its own doser nozzle/chamber setup.

T210DRVR

Ultimately cooled EGR in combination with SCR technology may be required to meet EPA emissions requirements. As I read the attached PDF (more than you ever want to know about emissions) adding SCR to cooled EGR may be required to meet Nox emissions limits at some point. It's not clear if the cooled EGR along with SCR will be required in this next go round of phased controls.

http://www.bowmannz.com/yahoo_site_a....105104828.pdf

B-MAN

Pffft... This is good news. Soon we'll have something new to delete, I'd even bet H&S is already working on a kit and Smarty should have something ready by 2015

Blake Clark

Well that is what I meant. It replaces the regen injection event with a separate function, the application of DEF by a completely different and seperate system. However, this may or may not retain the EGR function. The EGR function is the true killer of the engine, not the DPF.

jeff-kc9ftp

I believe GM is still using an EGR system on the Duramax with DEF. I don't know what ford is doing or what's being done with the big trucks.

Jeff.

MikeyB

From what I have gathered the SCR requires less EGR.

MikeyB

nkennedy

I have read they can use much less EGR with the DEF systems. Less would be better.

Jim W

I have been reading this thread with interests and I have a question for you.
If the 6.7L Cummins diesel engine meet the 2010 emission rules in Jan of 2008, without the use of DEF. Then why would they start using DEF in 2013?

I use to work in the heavy equipment manufacturing business and worked with the entire Tier I through Tier IV Bin 5 requirements for diesel engine emissions. So I revisited the EPA web site to see what has changed that would require Cummins to start using DEF and per the EPA site; Tier IV Bin 5 was the final rule for emission compliance. Which the 6.7L diesel engine manufactured by Cummins met in Jan 2008, for the Tier IV Bin 5 requirements of 2010 without the use of DEF.

Here is the Link that I used.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/highway-diesel/basicinfo.htm

Jim W.

Busboy

When we bought the 2011's we looked at 3500 4500 and 5500 Cab and chassis, we went with pickups because the 2011 Cab/chassis including the 3500 were already equipped with DEF. Because of the problems Dodge is having with the diesel pickups ( diesel trucks WITHOUT DEF) they must realize their pickups just don't work the way they are set up. I don't know if you have seen this picture but it clearly shows they don't work. This is one of the 2011 trucks
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