firemansdiesel

Sunday August 5th myself and two other 3rd Gen. Dodge CTD owners (x1 cameraman) did a comparison on the Carli Starter System, Lorenz Bilstein 5100 System & KORE Chase System. There has been a lot of people undecided on which type of system to buy or what really is the difference between these systems. Hopefully we can help some out. This is for people who use their trucks for daily driving and moderate off road use (average person w/ a $40,000 truck). Not for off road racing. Obviously this is not to see who’s is better because the Kore System was a step higher than the Lorenz and Carli systems w/ the Fox 2.0 Shocks. The pros and cons for the different driving habits. All testing sites were done in Sacramento County, California. All truck owners alternated through all the trucks at least twice per testing section besides their own. Highway 50 for expansion joints (roughly 30 miles worth), Prairie City OHV Park for 1 ½ mile off road race track (consisted of whoops, incline, decline, rocks, heavy ruts and grooves. Some at least a foot deep), back country rough pavement road that lead into a gnarly gravel road (roughly 3 miles long), not to far from there is a mile long rode w/ speed bumps (roughly 6” high) spread approx. 25ft apart and keeping speeds at 50mph for more undulation conditions for city driving.

Kore and Carli Trucks has 35” Toyo “E” M/T’s and Lorenz has 35” Toyo “D” A/T tires. Pressure for M/T’s were 40 psi all around and A/T was 42 front and 40 psi rear. This was the most time consuming to figure out the best and fair tire pressure between the E & D rated tire. The only other difference is the Kore Truck had a Chase Dampner and Lorenz Truck had adj. Thuren Trac Bar. Carli Truck was stock between those two items. It took us 6 hours to complete this testing. Like I said this is to give a honest opinion between different companies and systems.


Here are the results. It is based on ride and steering capabilities. Kevin ‘05 CTD (Carli), Kersten ‘04.5 CTD (KORE), James ‘05 CTD (Lorenz). A scale of 1-5,

(5) Outstanding
(4) Great
(3) good/average
(2) needs improvement
(1) Don't buy

Kevins Results:
Rough Road/Gravel: KORE (3), Carli (4), Lorenz (4)
Highway Expansion Joints: KORE (3), Carli (4), Lorenz (4)
Off Road Track: KORE (3), Carli (4), Lorenz (4)
Undulations/Whoops: KORE (4), Carli (3), Lorenz (3)

*KORE Chase w/ Fox Shocks
The KORE system shined on the undulation section of our test. The
truck sailed over the undulations in a very controlled manner. The
rear of the truck seemed to be the biggest factor as it minimized the
"hop" on the undulations, even though we were traveling at about 50 mph.
The KORE was the firmest ride of the group. Not sure if it is the
springs or the Fox shocks that are making the difference, but there was
definitely a noticeable difference. The freeway expansion joints and
rough road bumps were controlled, but did produce more jarring than the
other systems. The cornering is very good on the KORE.

*Lorenz System w/ Bilsteins
The Lorenz System did well in most situations. The ride between
the Carli and Lorenz systems were very similar. They both handled the
on-road portions very well, and were softer (less jarring) than the
KORE. The rides were "soft" but controlled. The Lorenz ride may have been
even a bit softer than the Carli. The off-road section of our
comparison was handled very well, and gave confidence even as the speeds
increased. Even though they handled the undulations respectfully, there was
more rear-hop when compared to the KORE. The cornering on the Lorenz
was a little bit soft, not quite as good as the KORE or Carli, but it
may have to do with the tires (D rated) than the system.

*Carli Starter System w/ Bilsteins
The Carli System also did well in most situations. Like I stated
above, the ride is similar to the Lorenz. I would give a slight edge
to the Lorenz in the ride department (a little bit more cushion), and
the edge would go to Carli in cornering (again, it may have just been the
difference in tires). Other than that, the systems performed almost
identically.

In summary, all of the systems worked so much better than stock. Any
of them would be a great upgrade to any Heavy Duty Ram truck. Your
driving habits and style, and what you want from your suspension, will be
the deciding factor in which one to choose.

James Results:
Highway Expansion Joints- Kore (4), Carli (4), Lorenz (4)
Rough Roads/Gravel- Kore (3), Carli (4), Lorenz (4)
Off Road Track- Kore (3), Carli (4), Lorenz (4)
Undulations/Whoops- Kore (4), Carli (3), Lorenz (3)

Thanks again to Kersten and his family for the hospitality. The opinions I have gathered through our comparison is as follows.

* KORE Chase System is a great system for long distance racing w/ the Fox Shocks and undulations over 5" ( I believe that what the speed bumps in the road were). It rides smooth. It hugs whoops good. It is stiff for rough off road dips and pothole size ruts. The Chase system serves a purpose and is a good system. The two real drawback is the Kore's' pricing (as we discussed) and stiff daily driving.

* Carli Starter System is a great system for daily on road encounters and moderate rough off road. Not a racing system. The only con for the system is a rear hop when encountering higher undulations. Hitting whoops it hugs the mound at low speeds and feels good.

* Lorenz Bilstien 5100 Suspension System is a great daily driving & moderate off road system. I feel it kept up good and is similar ride and feel as the Carli Starter System and Kore Chase. The one noticeable draw back is the rear hop or bounce on bigger undulations at higher speeds (50mph) and certain lay of the rough/gravel roads as it fish tails a tad, but not out of control.

Note: You can also add the Fox Shocks were cooler than the Bilstien Shocks. After
doing consecutive laps the Bilstein was scalding hot compared to the Fox Shocks as hot to the touch. I could not find any heat tape the day before the comparison. That was one thing we wanted to check for difference in temps. Even though we know for long distance beatings that the Fox Shock will out perform.


Kersten Results
Rough Roads/Gravel- Kore (3), Carli (3), Lorenz (4)
Highway Expansion Joints- Kore (3), Carli (3), Lorenz (4)
Off road Track- Kore (3), Carli (4), Lorenz (4)
Undulations/Whoops- Kore (4), Carli (3), Lorenz (3)

Kore truck-Stiffest ride on road and off road. Not as smooth of a ride for your daily driver. But when your commute takes you over rough patches of freeway or expansion joints, it shows great control. Speed bumps and undulations are handled very well, no or little rear wheel hop.
Off road, the system shows great control, steers great, but still, stiff ride.
This suspension likes to be driven hard and fast.
I'd recommend the system to those who like to drive their truck over really rough roads at high speeds. Control is this systems priority, comfort is second.
NOTE: Truck is running "E" rated tires. I believe switching the truck to a"D" rated tire will soften the ride, or run "E's" at a lower air pressure.

Carli truck-Softest ride of the group. Very comfortable for city driving, freeway cruising. I felt more bounce on expansion joints. Fast windy roads felt loose, as if it needed more sway control.
Some wheel hop over undulations. Good control over the rough stuff. Good ride off road. Steering was good. The suspension seems to float, making the ride more comfortable, yet it loses some road feel/control.
I'd recommend the system to those who drive 70% pavement, 30% off-road.
NOTE: The Carli truck is running "E" rated tires. I would not run this system with "D" rated tires, as the ride is already soft.

Lorenz truck-My favorite all around ride. It handled the expansion joints the best, keeping the truck fairly level with little bounce. Very little sway in high speed turns. Steering felt good. Some wheel hop in the undulation test. Off roads it felt similar to the Carli. A little more control in the rough stuff.
I recommend the Lorenz if you're looking for a great all around suspension.
NOTE: The Lorenz truck is running "D" rated tires. I believe running "E's" will stiffen the ride and affect it's handling, perhaps producing a harder ride.
I'm happy with the results of the comparison, I believe we were fair in grading the systems.
I think if we did this over again with the 3 systems, but matched with equal tires/trucks (i.e. stick vs. auto), the results may have been a little different, but not by much.
I'm glad I didn't bet money against the Lorenz for this test!
************************************************** ******************End

Just a side note. All trucks bottomed out the front ends at the same rutted areas. They were a good foot deep and most of the time we had such big grins’ putting these trucks in some mild abuse that we accidentally hit these at 30-35 mph. w/o paying attention of what’s on the other side. OUCH…… Also we are not leaving out Thurens products. We could not find anyone that had one of his systems. So sorry for that. This will be posted on three forums w/ the most suspension interest sites to get the most exposure since not everyone views all CTD Forums. All three Companies were given a heads up on the comparison on two/three days prior of date and was received w/ some interest. More than others. So please no one take offense of our comparison that already have these systems on their trucks. We want this to be a positive and not a bashing of system type posts (even though they turn out that way). Thanks.

We took 398 pics and some video. Kersten put together a website link below to view the pics. We will post the video as soon as Kevin can figure out the best way to download it. Your best to look at the pics in a slideshow to get the most out of them. There is a lot of multiple shots in action. You will also see us pulling a Ford out of a stickey situation.


The truck/color suspension ID for pics:
Lorenz= Grey Truck
Carli= White Truck
Kore= Red Truck

As I type Kersten is still downloading pics for the slideshow. So by midnight PSD time all 398 pics will be downloaded on the website for the slideshow. There are some now to view.

Here is the slideshow links: http://outdoor4.smugmug.com/photos/s...lbumID=3269739

Here is the still pic album. You can rate or make comments on pics on this link. http://outdoor4.smugmug.com/gallery/...7619#181277619

231jasons

Great write up thanks

Eddy Reyes

Great Info. Thank you.

DUKFVR

THANKS Guys! Made it easier for me to pick which one suits me best!!

ptgarcia

I have one word for you.....video.

THURENfab.

If you guys run them again let me know, and I'll see if I can line up some people up in that area. GREAT write-up!!!!

It would be really cool to get about 6-8 trucks with different grades of systems so the differences could be seen there...

Oh yeah....... V I D E O ! ! !!

firemansdiesel

I will definatley let you know next time. The more the better w/ different suspensions including stock. I we did throw it out there about a month ago for all types of suspensions to join us. Alot of interest, but no takers.

The video portion we watched after the day was over. It is ok footage, but not the best. Buy far we are not experts in video taking, but will give a little idea. Hopefully Kevin will post it today or tomorrow. He has a busy schedule and I am on shift at the fire dept. until Friday morning. Kersten has a good idea on how to post it.

Grocery Getter

Really AWESOME!!! Great details and write up!

Any thoughts about trailering? Would have been great for all three trucks to tow a trailer and compare. I think there are also a large group interested in not compromising the towing capabilities. Just my $0.02

Great idea and thank you!

soulezoo

Really good write up! Next time you go out, I can provide the "stock suspension" truck... unless some really generous outfit wishes to "sponsor" me

CTD Freak

I'll work on the video at some point this week. Finding the time to do it right is tough.

We would love to have had Thuren represented as well.
By the way, Don, I want one of your track bars after driving James' with it. If/when we do it again, I want one on my truck first!

We thought about that as well. If we had more time, we may have done that, or at least put 1000# or so in the bed of each to see how they handled it. Again, time was the biggest issue.

CTD Freak

A stock truck would have been great. I even asked for someone with a Power Wagon to join us, but no one took us up on it.

I think next time it will be much bigger. There was even talk of some interest from a couple of magazines about the comparison, so that would be fun.

soulezoo

Well keep me in mind and let me know... last time I was at Prairie City it was still called "McGills"...

Anyway-- I work in Sacto and can certainly be there... I didn't hear anything about it your first time around.

jamesbfishin

Awesome job guys, the info and opinions is most appreciated and useful as I am getting ready to do a bit of tinkering with my truck. After reading about the opinions of the various kits tested, I think my choice has changed, thanks again.

jamesbfishin

Quick question.... which of the 3 trucks had the closest to stock ride or firmer than stock? I'm not concerned with softening the ride from the front of my truck as I think it's too soft already. I'm old school when it comes to trucks and think that they should ride like a truck, my old F350 rode like a park bench and I loved every kidney busting bump. Thanks

CTD Freak

If you want a "kidney buster" ride as you stated, then I wouldn't go with any of these systems. The KORE was the firmest, but it was way better than stock.