yycguy

Funny thing, day after adding 2 inch leveling kit (coil spacer) and 315's instant DW.

bigdav160

I haven't had an episode of DW's since I removed the BFG 315's and put the factory tires back on. No disrespect to Mr. Gaston but several of us on this forum have "cured" our death wobbles by going back to the factory tires.

Will an aftermarket track bar fix the "death wobbles" on lifted trucks or one with big soft tires? If you say so.

Does it mean my factory track bar is bad because it would violently shake with the 315's? No because I haven't experienced the "death wobbles" in almost a year.

topless

It still appears to me that raising the front of these trucks seems to increase the potiental for the DW. I believe the better parts will fix the problem, but the cause or increased chances seem to point to several things: poor materials used in components, poor geometry, leading to decreased time before DW occurs, and the added weight or drag of oversized tires contributes. Since I have about 13,000 miles on my truck, but have 315's, I am considering spending the funds to fix the materials problem very soon. I have not experienced the DW, and frankly don't want to.
I appreciate the efforts of djgaston to make a fix availble before the DW appears.

djgaston

No disrespect taken, by any means. I assure you that tires do not cause death wobble. With smaller tires comes less weight and less leverage on your steering parts. Just because you have not had death wobble with your setup, does not mean that you won't. Plenty of people have death wobble with completely stock trucks... some are even relatively brand new! It doesn't take long for these inadequate factory parts to wear out.
We are not talking about "just" the track bar here, either. As I stated several times previously, there are many other parts that can contribute to death wobble.

I think that in order for everybody to understand what causes death wobble, we must first look at what death wobble really is.
Death wobble is when your truck becomes totally uncontrollable and the only thing you can do is hit the brakes. You cannot steer it because the steering wheel is jarring back and forth violently. If you are crazy enough to do it (like me), you can stick your head out the window and see your wheel literally shaking back and forth, side to side. I think I have a video somewhere of what actually happens with death wobble; if so, I will post a link to it so you can see what it really is for yourselves.

So now we understand that death wobble is a violent side-to-side shaking motion of the front wheels. What could possibly cause that side to side movement? There are only a handful of items. The control arms hold the axle in place and control vertical movement. In our 4 link suspension system, they have no bearing on side to side movement. That is controlled by the track bar, or panhard bar. It is the sole piece of suspension that controls the axle movement side to side, and how the axle is centered under the truck. Nothing else has any bearing on the entire axle moving side to side.
However, sometimes the axle stays still and only the wheels move side to side. What could cause that?
That could be the tie rod itself, which is what ties the two knuckles/wheels together so that they are an exact distance apart when you turn or steer straight. That is what is used to set your toe when doing alignments. When the tie rod ends are loose, the tie rod loses its ability to hold the knuckles at that exact distance. There is slop, and therefore one wheel can stay straight while the other turns slightly one way or the other. Generally, a worn tie rod end will cause tie wear problems before it causes death wobble. In extreme instances, it will certainly cause you to lose control of your truck.
The other components, then, are the balljoints, which hold the steering knuckles in place onto the axle, yet allow them to pivot, and the hub assemblies, which hold the wheel to the axle and allow the wheels to spin. If the balljoints are loose, the wheel can move in an up and down motion. You check it by holding the tire at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock and shaking it. If you get any play, the balljoints are bad.
The hub assemblies, when loose, will cause the wheels to move in a side to side motion, parallel with the ground. Hold the tire at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock and shake it back and forth to check for any play. When I did this on my truck, the wheel literally felt like the lug nuts were not tight. It was toast before 40,000 miles were on the odometer, and 36,000 miles of that were with stock tires and no lift.

What does a steering stabilizer do? Not much. It mounts to the axle on one end, and to your tie rod on the other end. It's a shock that absorbs horizontal movement. For those of us who have used leaf sprung vehicles (front and rear), imagine this. Could you run that suspension without a shock at each corner? Of course. The ride is just rougher. All the shocks do is absorb impacts to make your ride more leisurely. Same with a steering stabilizer. It absorbs sudden impacts and slows the movement down slightly, so that you do not feel it as much in the steering wheel. A steering stabilizer has absolutely zero impact on the steering and on death wobble. For those that have replaced theirs after getting death wobble, and claiming it cured the problem... I don't know what to tell you. There is a real problem somewhere else and it will reappear. If the steering stabilizer is bolted to the axle, and the entire axle is moving back and forth due to a bad track bar, it won't do you any good. It could only help if your other parts were loose, and in those cases, it won't help much. I don't run one because they are not necessary and they are prone to just getting broken off or bent. I don't like having extra junk hanging under the vehicle. And that is all that stabilizers are, extra junk.

djgaston

Here are two videos. These are pretty tame compared to what we experience with our beloved Rams, but at least you get the idea of what is going on. I know several people who have gotten the tires completely off the ground when this happens! Rams are much, much, much worse.

http://media.putfile.com/Truck-Shake

http://www.pavementsucks.com/video/dw.mpeg

I had trouble getting the first file to load, but keep trying it and it will come up. These are both leaf-sprung vehicles that don't even have the track bar issue to factor in. This is strictly because of steering parts like the tie rod ends, ball joints, and hubs.

YFZPILOT

I have a 06, does anbody know if the frontend has been changed to correct the DW?

YFZPILOT

One more question is this, the 2006 power wagon sits 2in taller. How is this achieved, is there a part we can use from it to fix the prob?

Hounddog

In DECADES past I handle cars that had the DEATH WOBBLE.Some Datsuns got it and some Ford wagons.They would do it so bad they'd about break tour hand or fingers.It was back then TIRES annd alignment geometry.New tires and a alignment it would be GONE.

Booboo

Had the DW with my 98 with 5" lift and 35's
problem was the stock track bar wore out. I replaced it with a new moog track bar and the problem was gone even when the stock alignment could not be acheaved because of play in steering box ( i was told ).

So how bad do 35's rub with out the extra 2"s in the front.

mikmaze

depends on how hard you hit a bump while at full lock and what rims you have the 35's on , 315 70 17's here and they never hit and I do get in the mud, I just take it easy..... now I have a little more clearance with the spacers, no rubs before, no rubs now.

Danderson

My one and only experience with DW was with a '77 E-100 Ford Econoline. Those twin I-beam Fords were famous for the dreaded DW but were cured with dual shock setups sold during that era. I don't wish that experience on anybody and is the reason that i haven't gone with 35's on my truck.

philobeddo

DJ's right about the hubs, the stock unit bearings suck.I put dyna trac hubs on, smooth ride, no more vibration, steering is smoother. Just waiting for someone to come out with longer control arms that will work with leveling kit. You can't just put a leveling kit on and not address steering components. Also when you raise it up it pulls your axle back,not designed to work that way. I fully agree with DJ about the steering. I do think longer than stock control arms although not the main problem will be a better setup than stock, putting your axle back to stock location after lifting. Not sure the stock control arms and adjustment cams will do that.

YFZPILOT

How bout getting the 05 06 Power Wagen's control arms they are longer, while your at it get the springs and you will have a 2 in lift.

k6jr

I went to my dealer in Salt Lake City last this month for regular service. I asked them about DW and they said that they replace the steering stabilizer and track bar on trucks that have DW. They checked mine and found that the steering stabilizer was shot and the track bar was out of specs. They replaced both under warranty. They said that they have not had any of the trucks that they fixed come back with DW. I have 24,000 miles on my truck. I can feel the difference in the steering now, it is much tighter. I never had DW but I guess it would have been just a matter of time before I did with the bad parts up front. Your dealers should know about this fix, the key word here is "should".

Good luck;

Jim

mikmaze

they didn't grumble about your 2 inch spacers??? that makes me hopefull, as my DW is geting bad, .........