Armapoc

What I was saying is that there are other ways to make power than creating soot. You can get a good boost in power, and make the DPF cleaner with the right tuning. I know these trucks aren't "super clean" and they haven't been for a couple years. Why would you need a DPF if they were?

If these trucks were really that clean and efficient wouldn't we be seeing better mileage stock than what some tuning can accomplish. EPA has crippled the mileage on what these trucks can do, and that makes the Particulate filters clog up even faster.

My bet is there will be some tuning that actually lengthens the life of the DPF. Cleaner burn in the cylinder means less soot overall in the exhaust stream.

qzilla

The Cummins DPF system consists of 3 egt probes, 2 - Oxygen sensors and a differential pressure sensor.

Ford uses 3 egt probes, and a differential pressure sensor

GM uses 2 egt probes and a differential pressure sensor.

qzilla

The problem is that the EPA definition of clean is goofy. It is not about how efficient the motor is it is all about the NOX emissions. The DPF actually makes the air exiting the tailpipe cleaner than the air entering the motor.

At 2 microns the thing is crazy.

The fuel milage suffers not just because of the emissions equipment. Realize that these trucks are making more and more power which requires more and more fuel. Sure there are little things you can do and might be able to do that will not affect the DPF but, if you are going to make very much power at all then it is going to kill the DPF. I think the DPF is about at its limit as it sits.

I am not talking about 20-40hp I am talking about 100hp gain or more. These motors are plenty capable of considerably more power but, a lot is going to have to change in order to make it reliable and simple enough for people to want to mess with it.

I am yet to EVER see any tuning that would make emissions less or particulate matter less and still make any power at all. Now that is not to say the tuning is not significantly more efficient in the motor, I believe that happens a lot. It just would not pass the EPA's standards for a vehicle manufacturer.

Fact #1 Timing dramatically increases NOX emissions and particulate matter.

Fact #2 Fuel without timing is not efficient although it can be compensated some with atomization which is why the Rail system has yet been bumped again. That is why the fuel mileage is suffering.

supercharged_hp

So does Quad think there's any chance that there will be a fix to this DPF b.s. in the future? Even if it was for "offroad use only"?

If things are looking grim, I'd probably keep the 06 for good and maybe try to find another one... It's just a shame that as soon as we get the transmission that everyone's been hoping for and the extra displacement, we end up with this nightmare.

Armapoc

I completely agree with you Quad, except for the particulate matter part. Why does increasing timing increase particulate. Wouldn't the timing allow the particulate to burn more completely?

qzilla

Well, you can't think of particulate matter as soley soot. There are a lot of things they are trying to stop which is why they went to a 2 micron filter. The EPA's high horse is NOX emissions and the CAT along with the DPF is said to lower NOX emissions a tremendous amount.

So you can either back off the fuel and loose power or you can do things to compensate. First thing that happened is they went with more displacement because they get bigger breaks with bigger engines. A 350hp 6.7L engine is allowed a considerable amount more "particulate matter" than a 325hp 5.9L engine. This is also why Ford went with a 6.4L. I am not sure exactly where the line is but, evidentally it is for engines larger than 6.0L's.

The second thing they did was increase injetion pressure. Now that sounds straight forward but, its not at all. Sure they raised the rail pressure but, they also added more injections per combustion. These are shorter injections so the average pressure of the injection overall is much higher.

There is a lot of goofy stuff. I think we will all be able to have fun with these trucks, get our mileage back and they will be just fine. Actually the tools we have to work with are only getting better. The only downside is that they are also getting more complex which scares the dickins out of people.

Now, my biggest beef right now is telling people that their $3k-$5k filter is going to be ok. No one knows that right now. If we know anything we know it clogs easy and its expensive. We know the motor itself is dirty enough that it needs to regenerate quite often and that the more regenerations it has the shorter the lifespan of the filter. SOrt of like your air filter. The more you clean it and the longer you clean it the more wear it gets.

tcr

WHen I said "super clean" I meant after the DPF does it's job. Have you noticed the tailpipe of an 2007 6.7L? They're not full of soot after running down the street anymore.

Spooler

Run Forest RUN!!!!!!!!!

They need more time I think. Give them six more months of testing and they will be even better.

dodgeboy59td

Well we have a commander installed on the 6.7L with only EGT probe hooked up and this truck does not run very hot at all, even with the programmer on the middle stage it will barely hit 1000 *F I have never seen nothing on the overhead computer about burning off. The Bullydog downloader is going to be a great product, we havent had one flaw or engine light with it. Wes

qzilla

I think peak on a stock truck they will only hit around 1200 degrees loaded. The problem is that they run nearly that hot cruising 70-75mph.

The reason for this lies in the VGT control. When cruising even at those speeds the truck is only making 2-4psi of boost and many times it is making 0 boost. This causes it to run very hot for cruising. Once you lay into the skinny pedal then the bosot jumps and the egt's stabilize without ever rising much at all!

The hottest I have seen was pulling a load. Now I was going up a pretty good hill and they peaked at around 1200 degrees or within a few degrees of that. Once I went over the hill and eased off the throttle they jumped UP another 100-120 degrees until I hit flat ground and started making more boost.

These are really strange animals!

Also, you can hook your boost up and it reads within 1psi up to about 24psi by selecting 04.5-07 Dodge. The coolant is within about 8 degrees as well if you wanted to go ahead and hook them up. We are working to finish the update right now and it will be out soon.

We will also have the fuel pressure kit and transmissions temp adapters here very soon as well!

Quad

duddin10

Alas, the great Superchips. They were supposed to have had a file update (after the original shorted out the computer and alternator) for my dads 2007 5.9L in 7-10 days and they would send an email notification when it was completed. Lets see that was a month ago now and still nothing. I wouldn't hold my breath on anything from superchips.

Bud Kunz

All I said is we are testing, just like you are testing. We do not intend to give people a false sense of security on this issue. Remember I am the one who wrote the letter to wes telling him we were not sure of the implications on the DPF. We currently offer tuning on 5.9L Truck that can destroy a stock transmission, but we warn our customers ahead of time. I certainly did not mean to mislead anyone.

Frankly, it suprises me that quad is so sure that a product that is not his, and he has not even seen, will do this or do that. Not trying to start a war here Quad, but I think your the one who is trying to mislead people about our product.

qzilla

I say you should start shipping them then. They work right. They don't hurt the DPF, you and 3 other people told me that, so start shipping.

I think it shows how much you care about customers when you use their trucks for the testing? Are you going to replace all the dpf's if you destroy them?

Now, you say you don't know what the real result will be, and that is 100% respectable. But, your beta testers have to be scared to death. You don't know how it affects the 2nd or 3rd most expensive part on the truck.

I am not sure what any product will do. I have access to some engineers that have been involved in DPF development. I simply understand how they work and what they do. Not in a round about way. I am not misleading anyone about any products. If I have to err to the side of caution slightly I will but, my money is that there are some dpf's out there dying as we speak.

Oh and for the record, I never mentioned my product. I never have even been so bold to to say or think that we will be able to make something that is "safe" for these trucks. These trucks are new and people do not need a BS story about things that have not been fully tested.

Armapoc

Wow, so are you not going to release a product for these Quad?

iker42

I think he will. but quads smart, wait awile, let the bugs get tested out by company owned trucks, then beta test them, then sell them. I've heard very few problems with quads products and even edge's products because they test sooo much before ever letting them test out to potential customers