Cheapest way right now to add ZDDP is STP oil treatment...

Or use Amsoil or Schaeffers which are still CI-4+ and thus have high levels of good stuff in them.

 

Just a mini Hijack here. Soooooo..... when did Cummins start uning an AR bolt assembly/extractor in their motors? Anyone else notice that in the coating photo? LOL!

As for the subject at hand. How bad would the wear have to be on these parts before someone would hear, feel or have some type of catastropic failure?

Mike

 

where can i get this ...Schaeffers? No retailers in my area and no online retailers mentioned on there site

 

Schaeffers-- there was a member here that could get it and ship it... I forgot who.

It can be difficult to find a dealer; I ran into one by accident here in CA...

 

We began selling a HEAVY ZDDP additive about a month ago. It comes in a 1 qt bottle, not a tiny 8 or 16 oz bottle that is mostly packaged for gassers with a 5 qt sump. Our 1 qt bottle is enough to treat the 11 qt sump on the Cummins during cam break-in.

We highly suggest ( almost forcefully, LOL ) that people use it for at least our cam break-in and it is required for the Billet cams we produce that do not require the block have bushings installed. For cam break-in, we want people to pour the entire bottle in the crankcase, but for normal use the ratio can drop to 2 oz. per quart of oil. So 3qts would cover 4 oil changes. The retail is around 35 bucks/qt for ours.

Like someone mentioned earlier, Amsoil has traditionally used more ZDDP than other oils and STP has some ZDDP in it as well. The 4 cylinder version of STP has the most, if my memory serves me correctly. STP, again is volumed for gassers, so you need more of it for the Cummins sump. Perhaps 3 or 4, 8 oz bottles.

ZDDP levels are being lowered per the API and EPA requirments. When the manufacturers of new vehicles were forced to warranty cat converters for over 100,000 miles, the people who produce cat converters said the high levels of ZDDP could shorten the life of cats. At first Diesel oil was not effected, but now it is and the levels are near worthless.

 

AR15/M-16 bolts are an option on the Dodge Cummins engines. LOL

I had a truck here with the rockers galled. It ran poorly. Like a valve was out of adjustment. You could hear it slightly as well. You will know when it gets bad enough.....

 

Great, something else to worry about.

 

Best high-pressure additive I've found so far is ZDDP+

 

which is better to add to the oil a zddp additive or the stp oil treatment?

 

I suspect these are all factors. But I'm also curious about the combination of spring pressure with cam spec alterations. Could the altered lift/duration of the cam have changed the geometry enough to produce the observed wear?

There's also the dynamic loading factor from the elevated RPM this engine is no doubt seeing. Not only the LOAD per se, but the time factor-- how that affects the oil film formation and deterioration.

For now, I could only recommend perhaps one of the ZDDP or MoS2 additives that have popped up out there.

EDIT: Oh, I'd think a DLC coating on that surface might perform pretty well. I'd recommend doing the inside of the rocker too so both surfaces are coated, not just the trunnion alone.

I'm currently trying this German-made Liqui-Moly stuff that Napa just started carrying.

Torco has a high ZDDP additive, as there are others as well. Gotta love the EPA

JH

 

Hey Don, I use the heavy duty synthetic amsoil 15w-40, would you recommend addition additive with it? Thanks, Jay

 

Amsoil Diesel Marine, along with the Synergyn blend we use, has the best additive package out there. Other oils with a lower TBN, such as CJ-4, will benefit from an additive with high ZDDP content. Additives like STP or GM's EOS (discontinued, AFAIK), don't have as much zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate as ZDDP+, but still have a large detergent package - which acts as a deterrent or cleaner of the anti-wear coating. Also, the detergents inhibit oil film formation and thickness, and increase the oil's TAN - so the higher acidity tends to accelerate corrosion wear of bearings, etc.

Molybdenum Disulfide is fine for a break-in additive, but not what I'd recommend for continous use.

The galling on the rocker shafts is out of the ordinary, but the wear evident on their pressure sides (and those of the rocker levers) is an artifact of the valvetrain's design, which is easily improved by a bit of machining to improve lubrication.

 

Good point on the Moly-- the "sulfide" part tends to end up as sulfuric acid in the oil and eats up the TBN if you have a bunch of it.

That's why oils like Redline that are heavy on the TBN-- they *need* the higher TBN because they tend to lose it at a higher rate with the elevated MoS2 levels.

JMHO

 

John Deere "Break In" oil has very high levels of ZDDP and is required for all new & overhaul engines for 100 hours. I don't remember the mileage equivalent.

The phosphorous portion of ZDDP is what causes cat problems. Not a wild guess, but actually proven in testing.

Cummins gaseous fueled engine share a functionally identical valve train to a diesel. GEO (oil special for gaseous fueled engines) has lower levels of ZDDP than CJ-4. The low phosphourous was to reduce combustion chamber deposits and to extend the cat life.

 

So...the 110 gallons of the OLD CI-4 Delo 400 I have sitting around is a good thing?

;-)