Quad Questions: Xzt Vs. Race
05-13-2007, 09:40 AM
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Quad Questions: Xzt Vs. Race
well, i was looking into getting the juice, but learned it doesnt do anything w/ pressure. so i started looking at quad products and it seems like they do a little w/ everything: pressure, timing, boost and they do it safely (especially fuel pressure). this is important to me because i plan to leave the fuel system completely stock.
this is my work truck and i tow around 5k lbs. 5 days a week. my goal is to add a little power now and later on beef up the 48re and put some more power to it, eventually running at the track a couple days out of the month.
but for now i would just like to make a little extra "safe" power and i reluctantly am planing on doing it w/o the use of guages due to warranty issues w/ drilling/tapping for egt. i have seen it said that the xzt is perfectly safe 99.9% of the time as long as you use some common sense.
so here are my questions: what are the differences between the xzt and the race other than the race is adjustable w/o the commander or recon. basically i am wondering if both were set at 60/65 hp, are they both making that power the same and are equally as reliable and safe? or does the race make its 60 hp differently than the xzt possibly causing higher egt's or fuel press. to make that same power?
either module i go w/ will be run on the 60/65 hp setting until i beef up the 48re and get the a commander or some other way to moniter everything (after the warranty is up). but if each unit has the same reliability on the 60/65 hp settings than i would rather go w/ the race because i can just turn it up later down the road. if i go w/ the xzt now, than i would have to stack it w/ something like the juice later and spend more in the long run.
on a side note i will also be adding an afe stg. 2 intake at this time as well. i already lost the muffler and cant decide if i want to lose the kitty as well (not sure if the backpressure is important)? maybee someone can also fill me in on that as well. Thanks for any info you guys could give me about the quad products.
this is my work truck and i tow around 5k lbs. 5 days a week. my goal is to add a little power now and later on beef up the 48re and put some more power to it, eventually running at the track a couple days out of the month.
but for now i would just like to make a little extra "safe" power and i reluctantly am planing on doing it w/o the use of guages due to warranty issues w/ drilling/tapping for egt. i have seen it said that the xzt is perfectly safe 99.9% of the time as long as you use some common sense.
so here are my questions: what are the differences between the xzt and the race other than the race is adjustable w/o the commander or recon. basically i am wondering if both were set at 60/65 hp, are they both making that power the same and are equally as reliable and safe? or does the race make its 60 hp differently than the xzt possibly causing higher egt's or fuel press. to make that same power?
either module i go w/ will be run on the 60/65 hp setting until i beef up the 48re and get the a commander or some other way to moniter everything (after the warranty is up). but if each unit has the same reliability on the 60/65 hp settings than i would rather go w/ the race because i can just turn it up later down the road. if i go w/ the xzt now, than i would have to stack it w/ something like the juice later and spend more in the long run.
on a side note i will also be adding an afe stg. 2 intake at this time as well. i already lost the muffler and cant decide if i want to lose the kitty as well (not sure if the backpressure is important)? maybee someone can also fill me in on that as well. Thanks for any info you guys could give me about the quad products.
05-13-2007, 10:27 AM
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I was thinking the exact same thing as you. I really liked the XZT and thought of the race version as a XZT that could go up to 140hp. However when I installed the race I found that the temps on a stock truck were way to high (1400+) and I blew up my turbo the second time I tried the 140 setting at WOT. This module seems to be mostly pressure and some timing and duration based on the fact that it only plugs into the rail pressure sensor. So now I wonder how safe the module really is for stock injectors. I hear people say that the edge is unsafe on the 70hp setting and will cause premature failure to the injectors, so were are we at with a 140hp box that is mostly pressure? My new II SPS 6280 turbo doesn't seem to have any problem running with the race on 140hp but the bottom end is anemic and the turbo is very slow to spool. I put my Bullydog TD back on and removed the race and the low end is much improved but I get alot of smoke.
Solution: Bullydog TD on performance and Quad Race on 100hp =
Good Luck!
Solution: Bullydog TD on performance and Quad Race on 100hp =
Good Luck!
05-13-2007, 10:33 AM
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I was thinking the exact same thing as you. I really liked the XZT and thought of the race version as a XZT that could go up to 140hp. However when I installed the race I found that the temps on a stock truck were way to high (1400+) and I blew up my turbo the second time I tried the 140 setting at WOT. This module seems to be mostly pressure and some timing and duration based on the fact that it only plugs into the rail pressure sensor. So now I wonder how safe the module really is for stock injectors. I hear people say that the edge is unsafe on the 70hp setting and will cause premature failure to the injectors, so were are we at with a 140hp box that is mostly pressure? My new II SPS 6280 turbo doesn't seem to have any problem running with the race on 140hp but the bottom end is anemic and the turbo is very slow to spool. I put my Bullydog TD back on and removed the race and the low end is much improved but I get alot of smoke.
Solution: Bullydog TD on performance and Quad Race on 100hp =
Good Luck!
Solution: Bullydog TD on performance and Quad Race on 100hp =
Good Luck!
05-13-2007, 10:46 AM
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GhostRam,
Since I've put the race chip in, I've been very pleased with it. I've played around when I first got it and ran a few WOT runs on PL3 (140hp) and my turbo stayed intact. My mods are below, and I just keep it on pl2 (100hp) driving around, and put it on the 60hp for towing. As far as taking off the cat and being worried about backpressure, don't worry about it. The turbo creates all the backpressure you'll ever need. It will get a bit louder however.
Since I've put the race chip in, I've been very pleased with it. I've played around when I first got it and ran a few WOT runs on PL3 (140hp) and my turbo stayed intact. My mods are below, and I just keep it on pl2 (100hp) driving around, and put it on the 60hp for towing. As far as taking off the cat and being worried about backpressure, don't worry about it. The turbo creates all the backpressure you'll ever need. It will get a bit louder however.
05-13-2007, 10:51 AM
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I ran the Bullydog TD for about six months and then stacked an XZT with it. For some reason on certain trucks the Bullydog and XZT don't play well together so I looked for a different solution. Since I was impressed with the XZT all by itself, I thought going to the race module and getting rid of everything else would be a good idea. I think I know what happened, I let up off the gas very fast when I saw my pyro temps approaching 1700deg and the sudden loss of drive pressure caused the turbo to shear it's shaft.
I will tell you that by itself this module runs very hot even with a new turbo and the built in boost fooler. However, if you get a downloader with more timing and duration and stack it, it will keep the temps down to more reasonable levels.
I live above 4,000ft elevation and that may effect my temps more because of less air but I would think with the turbo I have that would offset the difference. Thanks, Tom J.
I will tell you that by itself this module runs very hot even with a new turbo and the built in boost fooler. However, if you get a downloader with more timing and duration and stack it, it will keep the temps down to more reasonable levels.
I live above 4,000ft elevation and that may effect my temps more because of less air but I would think with the turbo I have that would offset the difference. Thanks, Tom J.
05-13-2007, 11:18 AM
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I have a "stack" version of the XZT which I'm using with my TripleDog and love the power I'm getting. Nice and smooth all the way through the power. If you're just wanting a lil' power for now and not planning on running gauges...I'd just get the XZT. I have a few buddies that run XZTs w/out gauges and have not had an issue yet.
Did your dealer tell you they would void the warranty if you installed gauges, specifically a pyro gauge/probe install? My truck has been to the dealership twice, once for failed lift pump and once for a TSB reflash....both times my service manager just said "Wow, those are really nice looking gauges...been seeing a lot of guys installing these on the Cummins."
And everything was taken care of under Cummins warranty both times too
Did your dealer tell you they would void the warranty if you installed gauges, specifically a pyro gauge/probe install? My truck has been to the dealership twice, once for failed lift pump and once for a TSB reflash....both times my service manager just said "Wow, those are really nice looking gauges...been seeing a lot of guys installing these on the Cummins."
And everything was taken care of under Cummins warranty both times too
05-13-2007, 11:37 AM
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You'll love the Quad Race - PL1 made my '05 feel like it was empty again!
PL3 (140 HP) does fuel pretty hard; the pyro nails 1600* by the 3rd gear change.....
BigJ - do you recall what the boost was when you barked the turbo?
PL3 (140 HP) does fuel pretty hard; the pyro nails 1600* by the 3rd gear change.....
BigJ - do you recall what the boost was when you barked the turbo?
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05-13-2007, 12:16 PM
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i ran a quad race on a stock turbo for 2 years. towed 10k with it on 100hp, no troubles. i think also that other things were going on to kill the turbo, please define "blew the turbo" did the turbine wheel come apart, did the bearings and seal go?
when i replaced the turbo(for a bigger unit=lower egt's) the stocker was fine. the quad products are fun, safe, and reliable. you will need some form(either digital or analog) of pyro at the minimum.
as far as being careful to save your trans, remember that you can abuse the tranny enough stock to kill it. if you are going to add power to an automatic truck, a trans temp gauge is recommended as well
when i replaced the turbo(for a bigger unit=lower egt's) the stocker was fine. the quad products are fun, safe, and reliable. you will need some form(either digital or analog) of pyro at the minimum.
as far as being careful to save your trans, remember that you can abuse the tranny enough stock to kill it. if you are going to add power to an automatic truck, a trans temp gauge is recommended as well
05-13-2007, 12:35 PM
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I have a Quad Commander w/fuel pressure kit on backorder. I don't know why the Quad products run so hot on my truck. The XZT could easily hit 1450 all by itself. I don't know if my elevation (4,000ft) has anything to do with it or not. However if I add a timing/duration programmer my egt's come down quite a bit to managable levels.
The turbo shaft sheared where the rear turbine wheel attaches. I think that it is designed to be a break point so the front stays intact and doesn't go through the engine. I still put an incredible amount of oil through the system and had to remove my cat and clean out all of the metal debris. I did put the cat back on after I was sure I got 99% of the crude out of it. I can see clear through it with only a few journals clogged. Truck runs great now and transmission will get attention next. Thanks, Tom J.
The turbo shaft sheared where the rear turbine wheel attaches. I think that it is designed to be a break point so the front stays intact and doesn't go through the engine. I still put an incredible amount of oil through the system and had to remove my cat and clean out all of the metal debris. I did put the cat back on after I was sure I got 99% of the crude out of it. I can see clear through it with only a few journals clogged. Truck runs great now and transmission will get attention next. Thanks, Tom J.
05-13-2007, 12:36 PM
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wow, must have really gotten her hot.
i am at sea level, and my egt's were manageable with the stock turbo. i did notice that when we towed to yellowstone 2 years ago, the egt's got a bunch higher with increase elevation. upgrade to a towing turbo
i am at sea level, and my egt's were manageable with the stock turbo. i did notice that when we towed to yellowstone 2 years ago, the egt's got a bunch higher with increase elevation. upgrade to a towing turbo
05-13-2007, 12:57 PM
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When I was doing my research on this same subject, I talked to Quad, & got them to E-Mail me some dyno graphs, & asked them what the differences were. They told me the primary difference between the race on 60, & the XZT is the XZT comes on a little harder ,& faster down low, & tops out at the same level. I Love the power my XZT gives me for towing. I would still put in gauges thoe.