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3rd Gen High Performance and Accessories (5.9L Only)Talk about Dodge/Cummins aftermarket products for third generation trucks here. Can include high-performance mods, or general accessories. THIS IS FOR THE 5.9L ONLY!
I know my turbo is almost too big for what I got on it. Jacob at htt said he would have sold me a 63/70
At wot just horsing around empty, it can get to 1400 before I'm otherwise ready to let off but I let it off anyway at that temp. (makes me shutter to think about where it got before I put gauges back on it)
I'm trying to get it cooler. I know that the smarty is probably over fueling in the lower rpms based on how late the turbo actually spools (around 2500rpm+) and gets it the air it needs so once it's making 40+ psi it's had a hot baseline to start with because of the rich fuel air ratio in the lower RPMs. Does that sound about right?
I'm looking at maybe an intake horn, exhaust manifold, or maybe grid heater delete. which of those is most worth my time? This truck wears many hats in my family but isn't asked to work very hard. I don't think I'm able to enjoy the full potential power of this truck because it's getting so hot so quickly. In the mean time, what could I do with smarty to reduce EGT? I've heard conflicting info regarding timing and SW settings.
I'm also looking to quiet down the exhaust and am considering going back down to 4". Is that not wise considering my set up and my goal of reducing EGT? Are the resonators good at getting the drone down on 5"? I have a 2yr old and I'm not taking him on any more long trips in this truck until the drone is taken care of.
I don't dog it that often and rarely actually get it to more than 20psi/1100*/2800rpm.
Also, I need to do something about the air filter situation. The last owner somehow crushed the original afe filter and replaced it with a spectre pos. it's the oil type. I've heard good things about pro guard.
The pro guards are good filters. I have used them for years now.
It is funny to me how the turbo you have is not meeting the need. That turbo was the "cat's meow" for a few years. I always thought it just a tad big for the average user. The 63/70 is not enough of a difference to make a difference IMO.
You need a smaller turbine/exhaust housing. Consider a turbine in the 67/68mm range and a 12cm exhaust housing. Those two changes will change your spool range by a few hundred rpm. While it is intuitive to think that the larger housing and turbine would be the coolest at wot, it does sound like you get behind the curve a little. 40 psi is close to the top of the map for that turbo.
As far as the changes go, I would go back to the 4" exhaust. You aren't pushing enough power to use the 5" and the 5" robs you of some low end torque/power. Of the other upgrades you are looking at, really only the intake horn is going to make a difference for you.... provided you choose the correct one. They won't all make a difference.
The turbo is actually pretty good on the highway. The only way to use it in town and not get it too hot is to roll into the throttle and wait for the spool and keep it out of OD.
What more do you have to say about intake horns. I've looked at a few. A lot look the same. I've got to keep to a budget/timeline so ill probably do something like that before I mess with the exhaust because I can do that quickly at home without help.
By the way, if/when I do go back to 4" should I just look out for a stock system to get most of the bends just for convenience? In the next town over I've got access to a full muffler shop and some nice MIG machines - not sure if they have the 4" dies and swedges though.
I've got the transmission to push a lot more power so long term I'm gearing towards that. Probably not going to mess with the turbo too soon. Just had it rebuilt this spring and went through the cussfest of putting it back on without help.
It's been awhile, but the most comprehensive test on intake horns I have seen was done by Left Coast Diesel.
CFM+ was a clear winner with Glacier not far behind.
On the exhaust, there are good systems out there for not a lot of money- MBRP, Diamond Eye to name a couple. They are well made straight forward installs. I don't know that I'd return to stock although to be fair, 04.5 and up exhausts are not bad at all.
I am a fan of SS and its heat retention. I reccomended my 63/68/14 to a few, one guy had problems spooling it. We went round and round, he noticed I had a SS manifold. He purchased one and claimed it helped his spool up quite a bit. With your sticks, cam, etc you really shouldn't have a problem with that charger.
What size tires do you have? 3.73 or 4.10? At this point every little thing you do can make a difference, or as stated send the charger back and get a tighter housing/smaller wheel.
I still don't think you should have a problem with your mods. Have you tried adjusting your tune, I bet custom UDC tuning would make a big difference. I would start there.
The members are giving you good advice on lowering your EGT's. I especially agree with Rye and soulezoo on their advice.
To add a little to the discussion, I would recommend a good water injection system if the other mods and tuning don't work. Like you, I battled high EGT's on my 1996 Dodge CTD 12 valve before finally going to water injection which has solved ALL of my problems. We have a very good thread that has a
"STICKY" that can answer alot of your questions. Some members here don't agree with me about adding water inj. but I can tell you IT WORKS! Here is
a link for you on our water injection thread:
I'm running 33" bfgs and 3.73 it's 2000rpm @ 75mph if that sounds bout right. I should have that in my sig.
Originally Posted by RyeThomas
At this point every little thing you do can make a difference, or as stated send the charger back and get a tighter housing/smaller wheel.
I still don't think you should have a problem with your mods. Have you tried adjusting your tune, I bet custom UDC tuning would make a big difference. I would start there.
I'm open to switching around the turbo config but right now am leaning towards trying some easier stuff that I'd probably do anyway eventually.
I've been wondering about using getting a stock turbo to compound it with the one I currently have on the truck. Do yall think they'd go well together or would another combination work better. Twins would be used to have better spool for daily driving and towing. No drag racing or competition racing.
Another thing inimmediatly had trouble with was finding a pro guard filter to go with my magnum force afe set up. Apparently mine has a 4" ID tube down to the turbo and now they come with 4.5"? It makes it hard to just buy one off the shelf so to speak. Any one using a pro guard with a 4" flange on a afe stage 2 box?
You would actually hurt performance trying to make compounds as you suggest. The turbos you propose to use are too closely matched to do anything and would only create exhaust restrictions. I would suggest educating yourself on how compounds work and then gain an understanding of what you wish to accomplish and how to do that with twins. There is some science and engineering behind it. You don't just put two turbos together and "voila!".
You could sell existing turbo. Get a he351 over s470/475 set up or similar that are common and effective.
I understand how compounds work but dont know enough about the size diffrence required to make it work or how to design a system myself. I was just throwing that question out there.
In the mean time I've put on a smedding intake horn and removed the grid heater with a well made and inexpensive billet piece sold by someone on the bay. Was $45, shipped with two gaskets.
I got polished to reflect as much heat as possible. Smedding horn looks well made, except for the alignment of the dipstick tube mount. I had to ease the tilt a little with some even heat and a pair of pliers. I then wasn't really comfortable with subjecting the aluminum tubing to all the vibration so I put on a couple layers of heat shrink, the outer the red is thicker and adhesive lined which I didn't want directly on the horn.
You might also notice the "aftermarket" dipstick mounting bolt? ahem.
I had to use the original to replace a missing manifold plate bolt ... Yep. That little problem was staring me in the face as I did the work to install the aforementioned new parts. I was also recently having some boost leak symptoms and needless to say those are gone now.
But back to the intake upgrades, they're awesome. Much faster spool up even considering the boost leak symptoms. Much less smoke accelerating from stop. It's like a different truck especially since i found and fixed the boost leak.
You would actually hurt performance trying to make compounds as you suggest. The turbos you propose to use are too closely matched to do anything and would only create exhaust restrictions. I would suggest educating yourself on how compounds work and then gain an understanding of what you wish to accomplish and how to do that with twins. There is some science and engineering behind it. You don't just put two turbos together and "voila!".
You could sell existing turbo. Get a he351 over s470/475 set up or similar that are common and effective.
After reading a lot more about it, it seems like it could work with the right combination of bypassing. An external wastegate before the stock turbo could ensure it doesn't overspin or bottleneck the whole system. Perhaps that external wastegate could be actuated by drive pressure to open after the HE351's internal wastegate opens (to overcome restriction of stock 9cm housing)?
As I understand it, turbo efficiency is based on pressure ratio before and after the compressor. So with the larger turbo flowing higher than atmospheric pressure to the stock turbo inlet, wouldn't that effectively extend the map for both turbos in some ways or at least the stocker? I would guess it would move the whole map to the right a little because before the larger turbo spooled it would restrict flow to the stock turbo and effectively drop the pressure ratio.
It seems obvious it would be a lot of effort. IE, I don't think I would get much more if any more maximum boost, but it seems like it could be tuned to deliver boost sooner.
I'm pursuing this hypothetical thought experiment as a learning tool, really.
08-03-2015, 11:03 AM
