fueling box summary
03-03-2004, 06:31 PM
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fueling box summary
ok, this is a work in progress -- inputs welcomed and I'll post revisions when appropriate. tell me about boxes not listed.
Below is a text narrative and I'll send a rich text format document, scanned with the latest symantec virus software, to anyone who asks. just pm me with your email address. the doc contains comparative data in matrix form and I can't figure out how to post it here.
Fueling box summary
03-04 HPCR
Revision 3/4/04: corrected for the Volumizer
Doug
(edited to correct an error in the original post)
“Pressure port” boxes appear to work by introducing analog error into the pressure feedback loop to the ECM. The ECM thinks fuel pressure is low, and compensates by increasing fuel pressure, injector pulse width, and small amounts timing advance. Boxes of this genre hook up to the MAP sensor and fuel pressure port. What differentiates boxes in this category is how the mfg relates fuel pressure to measured boost. Some make power come in earlier than others. Available boxes are all in the ~100 HP region for the 305 HP Cummins, and include EZ, Ramifier, Quadzilla, and Torque Dog Plus. Most mfgs will not reveal max pressure achieved by the box, but it is generally believed to be in the 27,000+ psi region to obtain 100 HP gain on a 305 HP engine.
"ECM" boxes appear to work by intercepting digital ECM commands themselves to control fuel pressure -- and perhaps injection timing and duration as well I don’t know. I know very little about these boxes currently, except to note that they connect only to the 60 pin ECM harness. Van Aaken (65 HP claim) is the only ECM box I know of. The web site states that they increase fuel pressure.
"Pressure/Timing” boxes work by raising fuel pressure like a pressure box does, but also adds additional timing control via direct connection to the crank and/or cam sensor. Approximately 30-40HP is available via timing alone without additional fuel. With the exit of the Bullydog pressure/timing box from the market, There are two boxes that I know of in this category. One is the new Banks six gun, at 126 HP/290 ft lbs. This box connects to the MAP sensor, fuel pressure port, crank sensor, and taps into a wire on the tranny solenoid, and one on the ECM harness. The Banks box also adds some fancy drive train slip detection and EGT based de-fueling. 105 HP and 258 ft lbs. of torque is available without raising fuel pressure above 24,500 psi. The other box is the Motoblue Volumizer (100HP), connecting to MAP sensor, fuel pressure port, crank sensor, and cam sensor. The fact that this box makes 100 HP with direct timing control suggests that its maximum fuel pressure may be less than the 100 HP pressure port boxes.
"Direct timing and duration" boxes work by connecting directly to cam and/or crank sensors (like the pressure/timing boxes) but do not connect to the fuel pressure port and do not raise fuel pressure above the stock value of 23,000 psi. They control injector pulse width by connecting directly to the injector, lengthening the pulse width beyond the capability of the ECM. Currently, TST is the only box in this category, achieving 150 HP and 500 ft. lbs of torque without raising fuel pressure. The box includes a boost gauge, EGT gauge, and performs EGT based de-fueling.
Below is a text narrative and I'll send a rich text format document, scanned with the latest symantec virus software, to anyone who asks. just pm me with your email address. the doc contains comparative data in matrix form and I can't figure out how to post it here.
Fueling box summary
03-04 HPCR
Revision 3/4/04: corrected for the Volumizer
Doug
(edited to correct an error in the original post)
“Pressure port” boxes appear to work by introducing analog error into the pressure feedback loop to the ECM. The ECM thinks fuel pressure is low, and compensates by increasing fuel pressure, injector pulse width, and small amounts timing advance. Boxes of this genre hook up to the MAP sensor and fuel pressure port. What differentiates boxes in this category is how the mfg relates fuel pressure to measured boost. Some make power come in earlier than others. Available boxes are all in the ~100 HP region for the 305 HP Cummins, and include EZ, Ramifier, Quadzilla, and Torque Dog Plus. Most mfgs will not reveal max pressure achieved by the box, but it is generally believed to be in the 27,000+ psi region to obtain 100 HP gain on a 305 HP engine.
"ECM" boxes appear to work by intercepting digital ECM commands themselves to control fuel pressure -- and perhaps injection timing and duration as well I don’t know. I know very little about these boxes currently, except to note that they connect only to the 60 pin ECM harness. Van Aaken (65 HP claim) is the only ECM box I know of. The web site states that they increase fuel pressure.
"Pressure/Timing” boxes work by raising fuel pressure like a pressure box does, but also adds additional timing control via direct connection to the crank and/or cam sensor. Approximately 30-40HP is available via timing alone without additional fuel. With the exit of the Bullydog pressure/timing box from the market, There are two boxes that I know of in this category. One is the new Banks six gun, at 126 HP/290 ft lbs. This box connects to the MAP sensor, fuel pressure port, crank sensor, and taps into a wire on the tranny solenoid, and one on the ECM harness. The Banks box also adds some fancy drive train slip detection and EGT based de-fueling. 105 HP and 258 ft lbs. of torque is available without raising fuel pressure above 24,500 psi. The other box is the Motoblue Volumizer (100HP), connecting to MAP sensor, fuel pressure port, crank sensor, and cam sensor. The fact that this box makes 100 HP with direct timing control suggests that its maximum fuel pressure may be less than the 100 HP pressure port boxes.
"Direct timing and duration" boxes work by connecting directly to cam and/or crank sensors (like the pressure/timing boxes) but do not connect to the fuel pressure port and do not raise fuel pressure above the stock value of 23,000 psi. They control injector pulse width by connecting directly to the injector, lengthening the pulse width beyond the capability of the ECM. Currently, TST is the only box in this category, achieving 150 HP and 500 ft. lbs of torque without raising fuel pressure. The box includes a boost gauge, EGT gauge, and performs EGT based de-fueling.
03-04-2004, 06:29 AM
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Re: fueling box summary
Originally posted by doug
ok, this is a work in progress -- inputs welcomed and I'll post revisions when appropriate. tell me about boxes not listed.
"ECM" boxes appear to work by intercepting digital ECM commands themselves to control fuel pressure -- and perhaps injection timing and duration as well I don’t know. I know very little about these boxes currently, except to note that they add about 200 ft. lbs of torque and connect only to the 60 pin ECM harness. Volumizer (100HP claim) and Van Aaken (65 HP claim) both are ECM boxes. VA states that they increase fuel pressure. I haven’t heard back from Volumizer yet.
ok, this is a work in progress -- inputs welcomed and I'll post revisions when appropriate. tell me about boxes not listed.
"ECM" boxes appear to work by intercepting digital ECM commands themselves to control fuel pressure -- and perhaps injection timing and duration as well I don’t know. I know very little about these boxes currently, except to note that they add about 200 ft. lbs of torque and connect only to the 60 pin ECM harness. Volumizer (100HP claim) and Van Aaken (65 HP claim) both are ECM boxes. VA states that they increase fuel pressure. I haven’t heard back from Volumizer yet.
I believe you are incorrect on your assessment of the Volumizer. Either that or I have connected my 0-60-100 Volumizer to the wrong connectors (MAP, Fuel pressure, crank position, cam position).
The Boss Hog
( . . . . . . . .
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03-04-2004, 07:26 AM
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Interesting.....
From what I have gathered on the Van Aaken box is they don't exceed the operational range of the fuel line pressure. Wondering if VA is also changing the duration and timing since the HP gain is lower than other pressure boxes but the torque is higher than most.
MikeyB
From what I have gathered on the Van Aaken box is they don't exceed the operational range of the fuel line pressure. Wondering if VA is also changing the duration and timing since the HP gain is lower than other pressure boxes but the torque is higher than most.
MikeyB
03-04-2004, 08:29 AM
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yikes, good catch Boss. the web site clearly confirms that the volumizer is a pressure/timing box. I don't know what happened there but I'll correct my post asap.
on the VA. I'm curious now too. if anyone has any info let me know -- I'm trying to contact them myself. the fact that it connects only to the ECM is interesting.
sorry again for the volumizer mistake.
on the VA. I'm curious now too. if anyone has any info let me know -- I'm trying to contact them myself. the fact that it connects only to the ECM is interesting.
sorry again for the volumizer mistake.
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03-04-2004, 11:28 AM
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Its expected to be a timing and duration box, and some speculation was that there might be a flavor with pressure as well. Edge's silence of late (they used to say "another month or so...) indicates that they don't want to set any expectations. bully dog pulled their timing/pressure box from the market because of codes. TST has it down to a few random events on some small percentage of trucks (some do and some dont). Edge looks to me like the're back to the drawing board.
Guys with the volumizer -- are you setting any codes?
Guys with the volumizer -- are you setting any codes?
03-05-2004, 12:55 AM
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Doug, one more thing you might want to look into is if the stated dyno numbers are max gain or peak to peak. For example the Banks Six Gun with the Speed loader option makes 126hp best gain but only 104hp peak to peak.... now compare this to the TST box that makes 184hp best gain and 150hp peak to peak. When you compair the best gain of the Banks to the peak to peak of the TST it kinda narrows the power margine and gives skewed numbers. You should look into if the hp numbers stated by EDGE, QUAD, BD, and TS are peak to peak or best gain also.
Horace
Horace
03-05-2004, 01:32 AM
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Nice work Doug.
Just out of curiosity, how does the Ramifier modify duration without being plugged into the injectors, or timing, without being plugged into the cam sensor or crank sensor?
Rod
Just out of curiosity, how does the Ramifier modify duration without being plugged into the injectors, or timing, without being plugged into the cam sensor or crank sensor?
Rod