crazy larry vs. smarty
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 0
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From: Port Deposit, MD
Well, THIS http://www.madselectronics.com/faq.html
one does.
Right there in the FAQ's.
Q. Does Smarty do the boost fooling function?
A. Yes, all the the softwares in Smarty ;have modified boost tables in them in order to allow for
higher boost without defuelling. ( Except ;SW # 0 and of course Stock ) No external boost
fooler is required!
A. Yes, all the the softwares in Smarty ;have modified boost tables in them in order to allow for
higher boost without defuelling. ( Except ;SW # 0 and of course Stock ) No external boost
fooler is required!
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,141
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From: College Station, Texas
Marco posted on the TDR:OPS,
our web site is missleading! The FAQ page is referred to the VP version ONLY! The CR is a totally different beast! We need to setup a dedicated FAQ page for it. I'll work on it ASAP! Promise!
To come to your question about the boost fooling.
It depends upon what you mean with " Boost Fooling ".
Today Smarty allows for more fuel at higher boost readings from the MAP sensor. ( Among with several other things that deal with the MAP sensor output.)
What Smarty does not ( yet ) is to allow for more boost than 30 Psi without setting the high boost code and defeulling then. The VP Smarty is capable of it. The CR Smarty is not.... yet.
I'm researching that aspect.
Helps some?
Marco
our web site is missleading! The FAQ page is referred to the VP version ONLY! The CR is a totally different beast! We need to setup a dedicated FAQ page for it. I'll work on it ASAP! Promise!
To come to your question about the boost fooling.
It depends upon what you mean with " Boost Fooling ".
Today Smarty allows for more fuel at higher boost readings from the MAP sensor. ( Among with several other things that deal with the MAP sensor output.)
What Smarty does not ( yet ) is to allow for more boost than 30 Psi without setting the high boost code and defeulling then. The VP Smarty is capable of it. The CR Smarty is not.... yet.
I'm researching that aspect.
Helps some?
Marco
are you still sure?
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 0
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From: Port Deposit, MD
Not so much.
The "Yet" part is good, cause I don't have the funds just "yet".
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,141
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From: College Station, Texas
Do your research and make sure you buy something good the first time...instead of being like me....having owned 4 different modules, 3 programmers, 2 monitors, and a boost fooler wherever that falls in.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Port Deposit, MD
The Smarty is something I have been interested in, I was very close to buying one for the 2nd Gen I just sold. I imagine I WILL have one, will it be next week or next month? That I am not sure of.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 253
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From: Orlando, FL
Well, I'm glad I have a quadzilla boost fooler. I just ordered a Smarty to give a shot and compare to the crazy larry programming. I am hoping to get on the dyno with both of them as soon as I can get my new clutch installed and broken in. I will leave the boost fooler on the truck for both tests.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,141
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From: College Station, Texas
Well, I'm glad I have a quadzilla boost fooler. I just ordered a Smarty to give a shot and compare to the crazy larry programming. I am hoping to get on the dyno with both of them as soon as I can get my new clutch installed and broken in. I will leave the boost fooler on the truck for both tests.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,136
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From: Corpus Christi, TX
at about 110mph
. I think it is time for exhaust.I wanted to keep the stock exhaust as long as I could but I guess its gotta go...
The boost fooler helps my top end, 973604x4 is the previous owner of my Smarty, he loves it on my truck, and his truck is faster with what he has. It is all by the seat of the pants testing. We are looking for a dyno one weekend to compare HP difference. Anyone got a dyno close to College Station?????
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
I ran way higher WOT egts without the boostfooler. It has been keeping them in check, until this morning when I was showing a D-max what fast was, and saw 1600 degrees. at about 110mph . I think it is time for exhaust.
I wanted to keep the stock exhaust as long as I could but I guess its gotta go... The boost fooler helps my top end, 973604x4 is the previous owner of my Smarty, he loves it on my truck, and his truck is faster with what he has. It is all by the seat of the pants testing.
We are looking for a dyno one weekend to compare HP difference. Anyone got a dyno close to College Station?????
at about 110mph . I think it is time for exhaust.I wanted to keep the stock exhaust as long as I could but I guess its gotta go...
The boost fooler helps my top end, 973604x4 is the previous owner of my Smarty, he loves it on my truck, and his truck is faster with what he has. It is all by the seat of the pants testing. We are looking for a dyno one weekend to compare HP difference. Anyone got a dyno close to College Station?????
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,141
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From: College Station, Texas
WOW! I hope your exhaust is the cause for those EGTs! My Crazy Larry w/ boost fooler only sees 1350, but I haven't run it that long and hard in high gear yet. It seems to level off though around 1350. I also have a banks intercooler (had an 05 plastic POS and didn't want to wait for it to break), which could help keep the EGTs down. Hopefully the Smarty w/ boost fooler will keep EGTs similar to the crazy larry w/ boost fooler.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,141
Likes: 0
From: College Station, Texas
I ran way higher WOT egts without the boostfooler. It has been keeping them in check, until this morning when I was showing a D-max what fast was, and saw 1600 degrees. at about 110mph . I think it is time for exhaust.
I wanted to keep the stock exhaust as long as I could but I guess its gotta go... The boost fooler helps my top end, 973604x4 is the previous owner of my Smarty, he loves it on my truck, and his truck is faster with what he has. It is all by the seat of the pants testing.
We are looking for a dyno one weekend to compare HP difference. Anyone got a dyno close to College Station?????
at about 110mph . I think it is time for exhaust.I wanted to keep the stock exhaust as long as I could but I guess its gotta go...
The boost fooler helps my top end, 973604x4 is the previous owner of my Smarty, he loves it on my truck, and his truck is faster with what he has. It is all by the seat of the pants testing. We are looking for a dyno one weekend to compare HP difference. Anyone got a dyno close to College Station?????
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Italy
Boost fooling
Gang,
First of all we need to define what "boost fooling" for a Cummins CR engine means.
Read, more boost and allow for more fuel as the boost raises?
Then the answer is yes Smarty's softwares do that.
Yet, in the real world things are a little more complicated.
First we need to understand that we have to deal with TWO different electronic systems.
The '03, '03.5 and '04 ECM's and the '04.5 to current.
The 03-04 ECM's do NOT control the WG. The wastegate is controlled by boost pressure and that's it.
For these Smarty does the "boost fooling". It allows for higher boost and fuel above the factory settings without defuelling and without setting codes.
That's if one uses any device to raise the WG actuation point.
For the '04.5 and up trucks the scenario is a little more complicated. The ECM does control directly the WG through that electronic gizmo screwed into the turbo. That valve starts to open a little by about 25 Psi allows for an short overboost up to about 35 Psi, then opens completly and maintains the boost @ 30 Psi. I'm sure you've noticed that short overboost...
Now in this scenario COULD Smarty control the boost directly? Yes of course! Once again we have to deal with one more complication. The external boost foolers.
Let's say for a moment that one uses Smarty ALONE, no other devices present in the truck. OK?
In that scenario I can set the WG opening point to let's say 36-37 Psi allow for an short overboost spike above 40 Psi then open completly at 40 Psi.
We maintain 40 Psi...
This provides a TREMENDOUS help with the EGT's. Up to 300°F less....
( I hate "up to" statements, this time allow me to! )
BUT, what if a customer stacks Smarty with another product that already does "boost fooling"? Well on average the previously mentioned boost levels would be raised by about 10 Psi ( depends upon which box/boost fooler )
since the ECM is fooled into seeing less boost.
The result? Turbo = BOOOM!
That's the reason I have not released the "boost fooling" softwares for Smarty yet and probably never will.
Clear as mud?
Marco
First of all we need to define what "boost fooling" for a Cummins CR engine means.
Read, more boost and allow for more fuel as the boost raises?
Then the answer is yes Smarty's softwares do that.
Yet, in the real world things are a little more complicated.
First we need to understand that we have to deal with TWO different electronic systems.
The '03, '03.5 and '04 ECM's and the '04.5 to current.
The 03-04 ECM's do NOT control the WG. The wastegate is controlled by boost pressure and that's it.
For these Smarty does the "boost fooling". It allows for higher boost and fuel above the factory settings without defuelling and without setting codes.
That's if one uses any device to raise the WG actuation point.
For the '04.5 and up trucks the scenario is a little more complicated. The ECM does control directly the WG through that electronic gizmo screwed into the turbo. That valve starts to open a little by about 25 Psi allows for an short overboost up to about 35 Psi, then opens completly and maintains the boost @ 30 Psi. I'm sure you've noticed that short overboost...
Now in this scenario COULD Smarty control the boost directly? Yes of course! Once again we have to deal with one more complication. The external boost foolers.
Let's say for a moment that one uses Smarty ALONE, no other devices present in the truck. OK?
In that scenario I can set the WG opening point to let's say 36-37 Psi allow for an short overboost spike above 40 Psi then open completly at 40 Psi.
We maintain 40 Psi...
This provides a TREMENDOUS help with the EGT's. Up to 300°F less....
( I hate "up to" statements, this time allow me to! )
BUT, what if a customer stacks Smarty with another product that already does "boost fooling"? Well on average the previously mentioned boost levels would be raised by about 10 Psi ( depends upon which box/boost fooler )
since the ECM is fooled into seeing less boost.
The result? Turbo = BOOOM!
That's the reason I have not released the "boost fooling" softwares for Smarty yet and probably never will.
Clear as mud?
Marco
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
Marco,
So if the programming in the smarty allows the truck to reach and hold 40 psi (04.5 and newer), it's tapping into and changing programming parameters that Bully Dog and others left alone.....max boost allowed. The stock peak boost is 32 psi.....no programmer (other than the smarty as I read from your post) will produce more then 32 psi....the truck will defuel once it hits 32 psi and sends the EGTs through the roof.
So, you're not actually "fooling" the boost signal from the MAP sensor like the quadzilla boost fooler does, or like the aftermarket "boxes" do, but you're allowing the PCM to reach 40 psi before it defuels instead of 32 psi like stock? Is this correct?
So if the programming in the smarty allows the truck to reach and hold 40 psi (04.5 and newer), it's tapping into and changing programming parameters that Bully Dog and others left alone.....max boost allowed. The stock peak boost is 32 psi.....no programmer (other than the smarty as I read from your post) will produce more then 32 psi....the truck will defuel once it hits 32 psi and sends the EGTs through the roof.
So, you're not actually "fooling" the boost signal from the MAP sensor like the quadzilla boost fooler does, or like the aftermarket "boxes" do, but you're allowing the PCM to reach 40 psi before it defuels instead of 32 psi like stock? Is this correct?