after market lockers/ limited slips
#16
The detroit is a little to abrupt in its opperation for my liking. also I tried the lock rite in the rear of my 96 , I could not stand notchie clickey noisey operation I pulled it out, and went back to open stock rear. My original plan was to do the air locker in the dana 80 but they never made it. So I drove my 96 for 180000 miles with an open rear. I have been down this road many times. Selectable lockers & 4 wheel disk brakes should have been options on full size pick ups ten years ago. Nothing worse than being stuck with only two wheels spining in your pride and joy 4x4
#17
From what I've been able to figue out, in 4wd:
1. With an open diff if one tire up front and one in back slips you get stuck. An open diff has an advantage on ice as unlike a limited slip or unselectable locker it won't kick on in a corner or on a crowned road and possibly break the rear end loose. You need to pay more attention to tire traction with an open diff and maybe carry chains.
2. With limited slip if a tire up front and one in back slip a lot, like on ice or on an uneven surface, you get stuck. A limited slip works by biasing a percentage of torque from one wheel to the other, and a percentage of zero traction is still zero. A limited slip can work well in mud, on gravel, wet grass, and other 'mixed traction' surfaces.
3. An unselectable locker kicks in under certain conditions, making it a bad choice for packed snow and ice. If a front wheel and rear wheel are off the ground you still have traction at one wheel, provided the tires are ok for the road conditions. They work well in mud, gravel, and other 'mixed traction' conditions.
4. A selectable locker works like an unselectable locker, but it'selectable :^). If installed front and back you have true 4wd in all conditions.
I have an open diff, which I prefer over a limited slip but would perfer a selctable locker on the rear. The ideal would be a diff with selectable bias, from open to limited slip to full lock.
1. With an open diff if one tire up front and one in back slips you get stuck. An open diff has an advantage on ice as unlike a limited slip or unselectable locker it won't kick on in a corner or on a crowned road and possibly break the rear end loose. You need to pay more attention to tire traction with an open diff and maybe carry chains.
2. With limited slip if a tire up front and one in back slip a lot, like on ice or on an uneven surface, you get stuck. A limited slip works by biasing a percentage of torque from one wheel to the other, and a percentage of zero traction is still zero. A limited slip can work well in mud, on gravel, wet grass, and other 'mixed traction' surfaces.
3. An unselectable locker kicks in under certain conditions, making it a bad choice for packed snow and ice. If a front wheel and rear wheel are off the ground you still have traction at one wheel, provided the tires are ok for the road conditions. They work well in mud, gravel, and other 'mixed traction' conditions.
4. A selectable locker works like an unselectable locker, but it'selectable :^). If installed front and back you have true 4wd in all conditions.
I have an open diff, which I prefer over a limited slip but would perfer a selctable locker on the rear. The ideal would be a diff with selectable bias, from open to limited slip to full lock.
#18
DTR's 'Wrench thrower...' And he aims for the gusto...
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 3
From: Smith Valley, NV (sometimes Redwood City, CA)
Our trucks are not "three" wheel drive. Nor do they have "one powered wheel in front and one in back"
In an open differential both wheels on an axle put the same torque to the ground all the time. If one wheel is on ice and the other is on dry pavement the one on ice will spin if there is enough power applied. But while it is spinning it is applying the same amount of torque to the ground as the wheel on dry pavement. We do not have "three" wheel" drive. We have equal torque delivery through a differential. That's the principal of a differential, the wheels can be spinning at different speeds but the torque delivery is the same. Now to improve the power delivery in this "stuck" condition we must find a way to send more torque to the wheel with the greater traction. This is where the various limited slips and lockers come in. Each has it's own set of advantages and disadvantages. I don't think it's valuable to say one is better than the next because they are different and each has their place. With a little understanding of each design the best one can be picked for each case.
I like the stock AAM unit because it is very effective and virtually invisible to the operator. I can feel or hear it the tires responding to it often and can make it "lock" with a little brake application even with one wheel off the ground. It is always there working and yet it doesn't lock so hard as to overstress an axle in high traction corners with a heavily loaded truck. I don't need an absolute lockup for rock climbing and I want more that a limited slip with a weak clutch system that can only bias a small amout of torque. I also don't want a speed sensing unit that slams in at a pre determined speed difference and sends me sliding all over in the snow or off camber conditions.
Just check out how each unit works. Analyze your driving needs and figure out what is best for you. I've had a bunch of different units. Some of them really sucked but most have been very cool and a huge benefit.
Wetspirit
In an open differential both wheels on an axle put the same torque to the ground all the time. If one wheel is on ice and the other is on dry pavement the one on ice will spin if there is enough power applied. But while it is spinning it is applying the same amount of torque to the ground as the wheel on dry pavement. We do not have "three" wheel" drive. We have equal torque delivery through a differential. That's the principal of a differential, the wheels can be spinning at different speeds but the torque delivery is the same. Now to improve the power delivery in this "stuck" condition we must find a way to send more torque to the wheel with the greater traction. This is where the various limited slips and lockers come in. Each has it's own set of advantages and disadvantages. I don't think it's valuable to say one is better than the next because they are different and each has their place. With a little understanding of each design the best one can be picked for each case.
I like the stock AAM unit because it is very effective and virtually invisible to the operator. I can feel or hear it the tires responding to it often and can make it "lock" with a little brake application even with one wheel off the ground. It is always there working and yet it doesn't lock so hard as to overstress an axle in high traction corners with a heavily loaded truck. I don't need an absolute lockup for rock climbing and I want more that a limited slip with a weak clutch system that can only bias a small amout of torque. I also don't want a speed sensing unit that slams in at a pre determined speed difference and sends me sliding all over in the snow or off camber conditions.
Just check out how each unit works. Analyze your driving needs and figure out what is best for you. I've had a bunch of different units. Some of them really sucked but most have been very cool and a huge benefit.
Wetspirit
#19
Wetspirit:: do you know if any aftermarket manufacturers "make" or will being making "LOCK-OUT" hub kits or new type hub assemblies that are disengageable from axles for the AAM 03 & 04's???? This vibration at 60-80 only gets worse with mileage. Dealers are no help. DC has engineers "looking into problems" ( that they engineered!)
#20
DTR's 'Wrench thrower...' And he aims for the gusto...
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 3
From: Smith Valley, NV (sometimes Redwood City, CA)
KCS,
I don't know if any front hub kits will ever show up. I keep hoping they will but who knows. I would like to get rid of the extra drag of the turning front differential but it's not really going to be much difference and may not be measurable in mileage. I have no vibration or noise from the front end.
If you are having this vibration problem it would be very nice to isolate it and fix it rather than just stop it by using hubs. I thought everyone was saying it had something to do with the rear driveshaft, not the front. Hmmm.
I hope those problems get sorted out soon. If a hub kit comes along we'll all know about it and I'll be checking it out very closely.
Wetspirit
I don't know if any front hub kits will ever show up. I keep hoping they will but who knows. I would like to get rid of the extra drag of the turning front differential but it's not really going to be much difference and may not be measurable in mileage. I have no vibration or noise from the front end.
If you are having this vibration problem it would be very nice to isolate it and fix it rather than just stop it by using hubs. I thought everyone was saying it had something to do with the rear driveshaft, not the front. Hmmm.
I hope those problems get sorted out soon. If a hub kit comes along we'll all know about it and I'll be checking it out very closely.
Wetspirit
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