Simple. Should I keep my VA C3.1 box or replace it with this new box from Quad?
What would you do?

 

or maybe the Bully Dog downloader????

 

Thinking back, remember how when you start to pass someone when already cooking along at 60+mph and the "lay you back in the seat" acceleration seems to drop off when you downshift and RPMs climb over 2,300? The Quad box won't do that as it does not taper off at the higher RPMs like the VA does.

With that said, if you go to the Quad box, you will loose a lot of low end grunt as nothing but the TST, VA C3.2, and BDDL on Extreme provides as much gain in the 1,400 to 1,900 RPM range as the VA C3.1. The VA C3.1 is a towers' low end grunt box. It adds just over 200ft lbs of torque, but it is almost all below 2,000 RPMs.

I would suggest that if you tow a lot, keep the VA as the low end towing torque is much better. If you want to race and have a little more fun running around town, you would probably be happier with the switch.

 

AK Ram,
In your statement you are saying the new Xzillaraider box as low-end torque?
If that is true, what RPM does it kick in?

 

No, that is not what I'm saying. Actually, I was trying to gear it the other way, as the Quad box will NOT have the low end grunt that the VA has. Of course, I don't know this for sure as we have not seen any dyno graphs on the new Quad box, but given user reports, they are not consistent with an aggressive low end module.

The VA C3.1 makes its max torque at 1600 RPMs and maintains it until 1900 RPMs where it slowly starts to taper it off little by little. That is a tall order to match and few other boxes come in that strong that low in the RPMs. As mentioned though, the VA tapers off on the top end for EGT control, so your WOT acceleration once you get above about 2300 RPMs is not that great. This is what you get with a box geared towards the towing crowd. The Quad box will pull hard at WOT, but won't have the low end the VA does.....at least it does not appear that way.

 

Well this is not really true. Empty the VA might give more low end up to 2000 rpms, but I bet it does not when you are loaded.

The Xzillaraider uses what we call "On Demand" technology. WHen you get a load on your truck it will fuel harder down low than it will when it is empty. We use multi layered maps that look at TP, RPM, and boost to determine exactly how to apply the power. So when you get a load on it you will get the low end grunt you want.

Hope that helps.

Quad

 

qzilla
Would stacking be out of the question?

 

Wouldn't accelleration be considered a load? The engine has no idea how much payload and or trailer weight is behind it or incline or wind is in front of it...

 

AK, it pulls really hard right off the bat. Not sure how it compares but the box does not feel peaky toward the top end of the rpm range - it's smooth and strong the whole way.

 

None of the above is true.

The truck absolutely knows how much load it has. ALl you need to do is look at RPM vs Wheel speed vs boost pressure vs throttle position. Bam! there you know you have a load or not.

Acelleration is a load, at full throttle we will kill the VA box. Empty you spend next to zero time at 0-2000 rpm so the "low end" is useless. That is why I mentioned the "On Demand" technology. When you are towing you can use that low end because you can't simply just blow by 2000 rpm on the highway with a trailer. SO when we see these conditions, we fuel harder.

Think of it as either semi-adaptive learing or an intelligent module!

Hope that clears the air.


Quad

 

Sawboywv1,
As you can see by by sig. I have the VA 3.2 and I'm going to replace it with the new Quad box.
Hope this helps.

 

Easy killers!

Sawboywv1 asked if it would be a good idea to switch from his VA to the Quad. I was simply trying to point out what he may loose if he does. If you switch from one box to another, you are going to loose something, however insignificant it may be to your needs at the time. It may or may not be an issue for him depending on what he does with his truck. Anyone who has run a VA C3.1 and moved on to something else will tell you that the low end is very hard to match. Other than the TST and maybe the BDDL on Extreme, there is no other box on the market today that makes its max torque at 1600 RPMs (I don't even think the Juice does). It is a tower's box. The VA makes all its power down low and I pointed that out. The Quad will pull strong all the way to redline at WOT where the VA will taper off, and I pointed that out. Given the guy is running a VA and was asking the question to educate him self, the important thing to point out was if he tows a lot (which is why people generally buy these trucks), he is going to miss his VA box, and I wanted to make sure he understood that.

Now if you want to get into the Xzillaraider, that is some pretty fancy high tech sounding stuff Quad. Sweet. We need to get some dyno graphs. I guess we would have to get it on a load dyno to see that circuitry in action. The Quad box sounds like a very nice box, but it is just hard to compare without some graphs to look at since most of the reports we read on here seem to be from people that are running a box for the first time or are coming from a simple pressure box like the EZ and such. I have only talked to a few people that were running a high torque box (TST and BDDL on Extreme) and put a Quad box on to try.

Taking some dyno results from another forum though (no graphs), the 100hp Xzillaraider on the 30hp setting made max torque at 2500 RPMs, 60hp setting made max torque at 2500 RPMs, and the 100hp setting made max torque at 2250 RPMs. The box nearly reached its advertised hp ratings on every level tested, so it would seem it was giving all it had, and 2500 RPM max torque is not where you want your power if towing is your goal. If I'm towing (almost never happens anymore), I rarely go any faster than 65mph to 70mph when loaded, which on my truck equates to 1700 RPMs and 1850 RPMs respectively. Again, if this guy tows, I think he will miss his VA if he upgrades, and that is all I was trying to convey....making sure he understood the differences between what he has now and what he is thinking about switching to. If he doesn't tow or does tow but still wants to haul butt at the track, then upgrade to the Quad and I believe the compromise will probably be worth it and he will be a very happy BOMBer.

 

I agree the VA works great. It does make power lower than almost anything out there. I just don't want people to get the wrong impression that our new stuff only makes poer at the high revs.

To each his own. THe competition is what makes the products better, so it is a good thing.

 

Jes@#!

I was saying that accelleration, payload, trailer wieght, friction (internal and external), rate of potentail energy increase (incline), etc. all factor on what load the engine feels. The engine itself does not know what is the exact cause of the load...it just sees the load. I am not wrong.

Load is Load at the same RPM. Obviously the RPM in question depends on what the truck is doing....typically higher for the racing crowd and lower for the tow crowd.

Quad...tell me what makes your fueling box any different than any other one that takes input from engine speed, vehicle speed, boost pressure, fuel pressure, and throttle position? Nothing.

Not all fueling boxes use that many inputs. Sometimes this is less effective or more...depending on what you want from your box. Why don't you step it up a notch and take fuel pressure and EGT into the equation as well? Then another techno babble non descpriptive name could be assigned to it...On Demand II?
Marketing ploys...

You still spend time in the 0-2000 rpm range loaded or not...just less unloaded under full accelleration from stop. The engine speed still has to increase from idle to 2000 RPMs. OR maybe when you are driving...say 60ish in 4th gear TC locked and you accellerate...same low end situation.

Is there anything wrong with the go pedal controlling the fuel delivery?

Even with "On Demand", the standard box still makes less than 100 hp. The Race probably makes less than 140 hp. That won't make me switch from my "old" technology box that makes 200+ hp/450ft-lbs with 80 other availible power levels/combinations. Maybe it uses "Just Designed Better" technology?

 

You are right. The engine itself does not know any load information. On the other hadn the engine does not run itself as it is not mecahnically controlled. When you plug my module in I controll it. I need to know this information, not the engine.

I think you just are not seeing how we are controlling things because no one has ever controlled them like we are.

Another thing you seem to miss is that I am not trying to compete with TST or the HIgh HP DL's. I might someday, but I want something the average guy uses everyday.

In the very near future I will take EGT's out of the question. I think the fuel pressure questioning will not be near as big of a deal in 6 more months.

I don't know why you seem to always have something negative to say. You stick your nose in every thread that has to do with me.

Bottom line is that you do not know how it works, and frankly I think it is over your head. I am not trying to sell you a box and I am thrilled that you love your TST. A lot of people like them, they make a nice product, but it is totally different than what I do.

So unless you understand how things work please don't give mis-information.