doug

The volumizer is a conundrum because they should be able to make more power than that with both timing and pressure. They have probably moderated one or the other or both

then again, Banks should be able to make more power as well. Bug we know they have moderated pressure (max = 27,000).

This is just a guess, but from looking at the Volumizer curves, they make more HP at the high end than is possible with pressure only, which suggests to me that they are only a mild timing box and mostly pressure. I say that because at the time Volumizer came out, nobody else had solved the codes problem with timing boxes. So I only guess here that they backed off of the timing (not as agressive) and kept the pressure up there to avoid codes and still give more than a pure pressure box would give.

Here's a benchmark: a real gain of 70-80 RWHP over the stock peak RWHP is all you want to do pressure wise. anything over that, and somebody's either lying, using too much pressure, or using something other than pressure.

The VA does not do timing. That is, it does not directly advance fuel injection timing like the other timing boxes do. it takes RPM information off of the crank sensor and uses that to build its fuel map.

kam1

Once again, you've solved the dilema. Benchmark very helpful.
Based on the low end(towing) increase, the ease of install/un-install and price, it looks like for now the VA for me.
Again, always a pleasure following the insightful inputs from the "Fuel Box Guru"

chuckr72

doug,

i also want to thank you for all the info you have provided for us, it is extremely helpful for those of us who dont know alot! hopefuly soon i will have a box and will be able to chime in on what works or doesnt work.

bulabula

Hey Doug, this is sort of related, but I'm assuming our ECM's/boxes are all open loop? I'm used to the closed loop ECM systems of gassers where the O2 sensors provide the feedback signal when warmed up.

I have done control systems, and its pretty amazing performance (hp, mileage, emissions) they're getting out of these diesels without any type of feedback.

TDIwyse

I was looking on the net for cummins common rail boxes and ran across one I didn't see in your summary: http://www.drivetrain.com/Dodgedieselpowerchip.html

It's called the Power Raptor. What's your take on this one? Has dyno charts accompanying the discription. Can't tell if the charts are from a 2003, or from an earlier engine.

doug

Its a re-badged Edge EZ.

2003Ram

I can't wait to see info on the new VA box.

(I like to see this thread at the top)

chuckr72

does anyone know when the new va box is suppose to come out?

doug

The fuel pressure system is closed loop feedback. The way I understand it, the ECM expects a certain pressure for a certain operating condition, and adjusts the high pressure fuel pump until the pressure requriement is satisfied, There is a pressure-to-voltage transducer on the rail that sends pressure information to the ECM. pressure boxes work on the principle of inserting error into the pressure feedback loop, so that the ECM thinks that pressure is lower than it really is. So the box pressure fools the ECM into generating higher pressures than it would normally generate.

There are a number of other operating condition sensors that run open loop. Manofold Absolute Pressure is open loop -- it is just an analog input signal fed to the ECM and upon which the ECM makes desicions. Same for RPM, throttle position, camshaft position, intake air temp, etc. These are all open loop inputs and become "dimmentions" or "terms" in the fueling equation.

I just got a peak at some data for the new VA duration box. looks like 130 HP from duration (pulse width) only with no pressure increase. hmm, time to update the matrix! no word on availability yet, though.

dwhite

Doug,
With all of your research, do you have any idea what kind of adjustments would help the "clatter" on the 600? I have heard the timing is retarded...and that a box would only make it worse (pressure box I assume). Any ideas??

doug

no idea what the '600 clatter is. the main ignition pulse is severely retarded and the vast majority of boxes out there do not adjust timing. Those that do (Volumizer, Banks, TST) actually advance timing. So if the clatter is due to retarded timing of the i main fuel charge, the box would actully help

I'm afraid I can't contribute much here...

dwhite

The clatter on my 600 is just like a gasoline engine with low octane fuel. It sounds like a wire welder under the hood. This is common in alot of 600's but most people are saying that it is "normal". Normal compared to what??? Sounds like crap and it is embarrassing when someone else is in the cab.