I e mailed cummins about using stanadyne,they said that they do not recomend putting any additive in the fuel,and that it would void my warr.don't flame me thats what they said.

 

No flames, but they are incorrect and actually if they said it as clearly as you put it, its against the law(magnusson-moss act). This again is a CYA statement to protect them against people using bad additives, particularly those that contain alcohol. Using a fuel additive will void your warranty if and only if, it can be shown that the fuel additive caused damage. If your rear axle breaks they will not deny your claim due to fuel additves... If some injection equipment fails, and you actually ADMIT to using additives(doh), they may use it as an excuse. <br><br>I've run stanadyne in my MB and VW since day 1. When it's 15F or less(used to live up north), cold startups with the stanadyne were noticeably smoother and quiet. I honestly never noticed a thing with power service, but that stuff is cheap/crap anyway, it's 77% diesel fuel. Specifically, stanadyne's perf formula is endorsed by VW for winter use. MB recognizes a few select additives as well for 'winter use' , mostly for gel point/cloud point depressants. Folks thats the number one use of additives, winterizing fuel. If you can find number 2 diesel and additize it for winter use, you have done yourself a favor. &quot;winterized&quot; diesel contains usually a percentage of #1 diesel or kerosene, both of which have lower BTU content(mpg) and lubricity. Lubricity additives or a gallon or two of biodiesel is a very prudent process with winterized fuel, to restore the lubricity. Good fuel manufacturers properly additize their fuel at the terminals, however you can't be sure, which is why additives are cheap insurance.<br><br>Finding good quality clean fuel however is more important than choosing/using an additive. If you find a consistently good source, you will be home free. There just aren't too many around of them :'( ALl the guys in WI and MI etc that have access to Amoco Premier make me sick with jealousy! Its 50 cetane minimujm with all the additives already put in.

 

LOl gary, you get what you pay for . The 23% outside of the diesel fuel in powerservice is good stuff, as far as I know. It's just far less concentrated, you have to dump nearly twice the ounces of PS as compared to stanadyne, or the super concentrated primrose.. (12 oz primrose treats 187 gals!)<br><br>As far as my use, of course it's relatively subjective, as I wasn't measuring db's etc, but I ran powerservice for a while, and switched between it and stanadayne, and in my experience, I've never noticed any benefit I could hear or feel with the PS. Thats not to say the DFS won't effectively depress the pour/cloud point when dosed properly, I fully believe it will. I think possibly the lubricity additives are not quite as strong as the stanadyne, hence the quieter idle and smoother operation that I noticed. The stanadyne is based on a lubricant type oil, not #2 diesel as filler...<br><br>Either way, you are only helping by dumping additives in, I'm not trying to nitpick too much between brands..

 

The exact testing methods the additive manufacturers use to determine dosages are not something I know. However, these are not 'snake oil' products with no benefit, as you seem to assert. If you don't choose to use them thats fine, but don't attempt to discredit the work of the engineers that take these products seriously. Its very simple to take two jars filled with the same diesel fuel, add anti-gel additves to one, and leave the other pure diesel, and throw them in your freezer. Do the experiment for yourself, and you will see completely objectively that the treated diesel will stay fluid to a MUCH lower temperature.<br><br>Again, finding a source for good and CLEAN fuel is the key.

 

As I said, I'm not sure how they test the additives to determine proper dosage. I hope you arent indirectly claiming I'm 'blustering' my way through anything, because everything I've presented is factual. I think Gary you are to a degree attempting to discredit the additives, by referring to them as 'magic stuff' etc.... putting them in line with the likes of mystery and snake oils, like slick 50.. Anyway, you're right, this has digressed too far from the post's original topic... to which I say, use additives, unless you can verify your good fuel source ;D

Gary, do you know whats in YOUR tank?

Edit: Gary that is a darn good question the more I think about it, i'm going to email one of my colleagues who is a lubrication engineer and ask him about the lubricity tests.

 

I dont know the actual percentages of how much each particular company's products are watered down, but they all shoot for a similar benchmark, which is what you are asking, and I can't answer your question exactly unfortunately. Most additive companies shoot for a few things on an average basis(these are actually specs for primrose):<br>1. 5 cetane boost<br>2. corrosion preventive<br>3. lubricity enhancement<br>4. injector/system detergency<br>5. Varying methods of dealing with water(demulsify or emulsify, THAT is a whole separate discussion!)<br><br>These are the basic improvements most of the popular additives make. If you think about the cost of them though, consider primrose #405. Gary you said you put 16 ounces for 50 gallons in your tank if I remember correctly. Not sure how much that costs, but with a highly concentrated additive like primrose, you would only have to dump in 3 ounces. With stanadyne which is more concentrated than PS but less than primrose, you'd be somewhere in between. Primrose has just recently become available to the public, after they've been making 90+% of the additives the US military uses. They aren't very strong on the retail front, but heavy on R&amp;D and . I've switched to primrose recently and have no complaints so far. you might want to look into that, it could save you some $$. As far as powerservice specifically, the 77% figure I believe I got from Mandy Kramer at Powerservice's corporate office, I'll have to look through my old emails. They actually sent me out a free case of PS to try and review for them. They are nice people, just an admittedly slightly &quot;watered down&quot; product.<br><br>As far as putting in whatever flying J serves up, that could prove risky business, although you are covering your rear by adding the 2 stroke oil for lubricity and the PS. To find a good fuel source, you must first find a source that is either corporate owned and is required to buy only their branded fuel, or privately owned and allowed to buy whoever has the cheapest price (and usually quality) at the time. The one exception to that rule here in FL, is Hess. While a hess station may be privately bought as a franchise operation, they are required to buy only hess fuel. Once you've found a station with a consistent fuel supply, then it is prudent to test the source for quality, and you can again in a few months to re confirm if necessary. My local hess we tested 3 months ago and were very pleased to find the fuel had a cetane index of 50 8), and reasonably clean particulate levels. We tested it again a few weeks ago and 48 cetane and similar particulates. I feel thats a reasonable amount of data to assume we've found a consistently good source. Might want to look into a test, its great to finally see exactly what you're pumping into your tank. <br><br>Last but not least, I am not in this business whatsoever, I'm just an avid diesel enthusiast. I am in contact with many industry professionals and am always on the quest for more diesel truth! ;D

 

I believe its a little under 3 cents/treated gallon if my math is correct, which it might not be, lol. The appropriate product is the powermaster 405, it has everything you need minus anti-gel. The winter formula which is 405 plus anti-gel is possibly called 409. I never really looked into it, living in Florida It's really cost effective in my book, a $5, 12 ounce bottle treats 187 gallons. I've so far only found it in cases of 6 twelve ounce bottles, for $30. If you'd like the info on where to get it and fuel test kits, email/pm me, I dont want to upset any of the powers that be on the forum by posting links to non sponsors etc. Not sure how this forum is about that but some are very sensitive!

 

Gary, that price on avlube's site, which i'm assuming you're going to, is for 6 bottles for $30, and each bottle treats 187 gallons my friend. :P