stutz

I now have 17k on my 4.5 now. The pinging started at about 10k and has slowly gotten worse. I figure it time to take it in to the dealer and I hope I won't have the same problems I hear about on this site. I now have 17k on my 4.5 now. The pinging started at about 10k and has slowly gotten worse. I figure it time to take it in to the dealer and I hope I won't have the same problems I hear about on this site.

My question is: If I get the problem fixed is there any thing I can do to keep it from coming back? Maybe some better fuel filtering or something. Would this keep the injectors from going bad as quick? If so what brand of filter?

Also:
Is there good dealership in or around the Sacramento area that has a good record with the CTD. PM me with any suggestions on who to take my rig to.

grandblanc

Well, the dealer found two bad injectors; they say one had worked its way loose. Anyhow, they replaced the bad injectors and the knock is still there and it seems more noticeable now. I must admit, the service manager is doing all he can to make sure it gets fixed. He did a dealer trade just to get new 05 in so he could do a side by side engine idle comparison. Well, they spend all day Friday and the better part of the day today on the phone with STAR doing "tests" to see what is wrong. His next step is to send it to the local CUMMINS dealer to have them fix it. At least they are working with me. Here is my question to all the pros out there. What do you guys think the loud knock could be, has anyone had this sort of issue? Thanks in advance.

GregMc

My 04 305/555 has the knock as well. Its been to the dealer twice and they acknowledge the sound but don't appear to know what to do. I definately think the knock is fuel related. The knock started at about 7K miles and it has 28K on it now.

If it REALLY is injector problems why does it only knock when the truck warms up? I can start my truck and it sounds great but the sound seems to become noticable when the water temp rises. If the injector wasn't sealing wouldn't it be doing the same if the engine was hot or cold? Does the computer change the fuel mapping as the engine warms and that could be causing the problem. This is my first diesel and the knocks get on my nerves because I don't think it is normal. Some days the knocks are worse than others. I have almost thought some of the problems are fuel delivery issues not injector issues. I have no guages on my stock truck so I haven't checked fuel pressure. Oil looks great with about 6500 miles since last changed, fuel mileage is about 20 on the interstate driving 70-75. I am almost scared to let the dealer touch it.

I have used Diesel Kleen, Howes, and Red Line fuel additives. The cleanup dose of Red Line seems to have provided the best results of making the knock quieter.

rossn2

I, too, have experienced the knock/ping noise. It appears to be from idle to about 1500 rpms warm and sometimes cold. Sounds like a piston is coming thru the block.

At 17k #3 injector was replaced and knock was gone. The tech used the PCM and no problems were found. Apparently, the only way is to disconnect each injector, one at a time, and drive the truck until it warms up to find the bad one. No wonder the dealerships want to say it's normal, the tech's are loosing their shirts on pay...

Starting about a month later, about 18k the noise came back. Now, at 22k it's still there. I've tried Rotella DFA and Diesel Kleen, changing fuel dealers and location and nothing has had any effect.

So, I guess I'll make an appointment and take truck back.

I guess if it makes it to three strikes and they're out....the lemon law kicks in here in Texas...

txhawg

Hate to burst your bubble, but it's five strikes, or in the shop more than 30 days for repair. I went through that with my Harley. They do tend to play a little nicer when you actually go file the case.

kingofdodge7131

I too am a diesel tech. Not quite a dodge tech, I work for international Trucks. But I play with the isx quite a bit, The dt 466 and the 444e. As far as this disconnect thing im a bit stumped on that one. Unless i read it wrong. Im takin it your unplugging each injector letting the truck cool and running again


Alteast in big truckks. You can do this all with computer. hook the lap top up and sit there. With teh touch of a button i can run the rpm to exactly where i want it, ( Its kinda sad what you need the computer for on those trucks. You need it just to install fog lights. Can turn lights on with the computer Its crazy cool)

Anyway. You can do that turn them on and off as you please, and watch fuel rates to other cylinders, basically what ive been trained in my 2 years of school to watch for was the increased % in fuel delivery. WHen it didnt change you found the bad injectors. And from what Cummins had told me when we were trouble shooting an ISM was that there will never be 100% match across the board. but thats the way ive always tested them. Im sure the ISB in the dodge is the same

Actually, on the 05 466e you can even do a compression test with the nifty lil puter. Has some mathmatical stuff in it that tells it when the other cylinders need to use this much fuel the compression in the dead cylinder is yada yada. Pretty cool stuff these computers can tell ya.

bkrukow

So what your saying is that when shutting injectors off you need to wach the others and the ones that the % does not go up are the bad ones???

kingofdodge7131

Um not completly. Unless i miss read what your saying.

What the tech is going to do is pull up the "cyliner cutout test" it could be automatte or could just be manually shut off by the mechanic. What he/she will be looking for is equalization over the cylinders. The way they do this is tell the computer To keep the RPM at say 1300 rpm. So the truck will keep it at that 1300rpm. So he/she shuts off cylinder one and the fuel rate or % on the other cyl go up, That means that injector is "good" Then say you come across an injector, You shut it off and the fuel rate doent change or, Doesnt change to the level that specs say it shoul. THats the bad one. The way that works is this

The engine when you told it to run 1300 rpm pulled that off without the bad injector. so it didnt matter to the engine that you shut it off.


We also use this method in finding leak. In the brand new 04 05 engine the computer can calculate power output realivent to fuel input. And will come back with this cylinder leaks on so an so injection. On older engines its a lil more difficult to find. As cutting out a cyl will make a very ugly noise as you can imagine. So you need to have a purty well trained ear to hear the "knock" before the big knock comes and Tell when it leaves. I myself dont have that good of ear yet :P

falcondan9570

My truck pings and rattles at idle when cold.. After it is warmed up the ping and rattle disappear.. I thought this was due to the Multiple shot injectors...

bkrukow

Ah. I understand. Thanks.

J BODY

Thats interesting Kingofdodge. We can do injector canceling with the DRB scan tool, but it doesn't show us any percentage of change to other cylinders. Basically if you have a fuel knock you hope it's severe enough that killing a particular cylinder will be obvious to the ear. On our cylinder performance check we have no literature on what or how it works. We pretty much run the test and relay the info to tech center and they tell us which way to go. I'm sure in time that info will trickle down to us lowly techs, but for now at least I'm soaking up info at various outlets to get a better overall understanding of the system. The only thing is that on that test you explained if you have a cylinder with lower compression won't that affect the outcome of the test too and wont' necessarily pinpoint the injector? I was fairly comfortable with the common rail fuel system till I got my hind end handed to me last week. Unfortunately for me (not for the customer) the truck was drivable and he was able to get home, but it would have been a very good learning experience for me. I do have his home town dealer number and hope to find out what happened with the truck.

kingofdodge7131

The lower compression thing is slightly true. One reason why the new engines are nice that it has a test for it already. But. Even with the older ones you can lookk for some obvious signs. Maybe you have a lot of blow by. And another thing is the sound diffrence. If you have a leaking injector your giong to hear more of a predetionation (sp) sound a failure injector will give you the miss sound. Then if you have plain lower compression as said you would have to diagnose that.

Smkndzl

JBody , sometime or most of the time with the CR injectors you cant find the fuel knock with single cyl. cutout test , reason is the injector is leaking regardless what the electrical portion of the injector is doing, Cummins does make a cap that you can put on the common rail for cancelling fuel to each cylinder one at a time, you basically remove the injector line and cap the common rail. and run the engine to check for fuel knock. What KingofDodge was talking about is the Insite program he uses, it will give you the tach reading and fuel precentages, but again , it is not usable on the Dodge version of the CR ISB , alot of the time the automated test don't do anything for you , they will show you that all the injectors are all firing like they are suppose to and give you the good rating when you know **** well that one or more is screwing all up , and then you have to create the condition to find it.... I had one last week where there was a fuel knock only when the engine was cold, and I mean cold , if waited for your computer to warm up or the air to build up it was too late , so the next morning I built up the air with shop air and had the computer going and set to single cylinder cut out , in less then 15 seconds I was on the road with a tech handling the computer and I was driving , sure enough we found the culprit and by the time we got back to the shop it was running nice and quiet. I find alot of the time I do have to talk to the Customer and find out what really is going on.

rossn2

THe DRB tool won't find the bad injector..."JOHNCA58 is correct Cummins does make a cap that you can put on the common rail for cancelling fuel to each cylinder one at a time, you basically remove the injector line and cap the common rail and run the engine to check for fuel knock. "
This is extremely time consuming to the tech who has to disconnect each injector, one at a time, then drive the truck until it is warm. Then once they find the bad injector, they have to swap it to another cylinder and see if the same problem exists in that cylinder....
Yeah, doesn't make any sense and STAR should just let them replace all 6 at once, once problems start occuring.

I've tried Rotella DFA and PS Diesel Kleen and neither have helped with the darn knock...

AaronT

JohnCA58:

I like your attitude and approach re talking to the customer. I think this is a 2 way street as an informed customer can provide some good info, and if the Service writer is willing to listen and write down exactly what the customer is saying it helps. It also helps if the service writer can get the tech out to talk to the customer directly. If this happens it is more of a win win situation for all.