FYI, Mobil sued Castrol over this and lost, there the judge said the word synthetic is just a marketing term so highly refined group III crude oil can legally be called synthetic. Now you know why Amsoil, Redline 100% man made synthetic oils and fluids cost more then Mobil, Castrol, Rotella and many other group III synthetic oils and fluids.

From allpar web site:

The paper noted that one alternative was to use synthetic Group IV base stock, which are even more expensive than the ATF+4 solution, which provided Group IV style performance from Group III stock. :http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/fluids.html


Also from Allpar about oil groups:

Group I base oils can have a mix of different hydrocarbon chains, with relatively little uniformity; these oils are the least refined. They are usually not used for autos.

Group II are the most common base oils in “dino juice,” with good performance in most areas except cold temperature viscosity.

Group III are called synthetic, and have high molecular uniformity and stability. Group III oil bases are used in most synthetic oils.

Group IV are chemically engineered stocks, arguably with the highest performance and longevity.

 

So, what your saying is if I drop my pan, add 8 quarts and change the filter, then there is still 10 quarts of brown nasty oil in the trans?

 

As far as performance of tranny goes, I seriouslly doubt there is a nickels worth of difference between the walmart "swill" and the most overpriced synthetic on the market. The quality of additives in ATF is what makes the oil. If the ATF has the "ATF 4" package it meets the Chrysler requirments. By changing 6-8 qts of fluid, you add enough good stuff to bring it back up to standard. JMHO

 

I have been using the Walmart Supertech ATF+4 for about 2 years now. I change mine every 6 months since I tow a lot. I just pull the drain plug on my Mag-Tec pan and let it drain for a few hours. It usually takes 8 to 9 qts to refill it.

 

Bet there's a pretty big difference in common swill as you call it and a Group 4 full synthetic.The full synthetic ATF will lower trans operating temp by 25 to 50 degrees.

 

If you service the trans every 30-40K and you have not burned the fluid all you need to do is drop the pan install a new filter and refill. Now if the trans was never service in over 80K or you burnt or you some how got a lot of dirt in the fluid then it would be wise to install a new filter and then use an exchange machine so as to get rid of all the old fluid. FYI I have never drained all of the fluid out of any trans I've serviced in 36 years and have never had one break down on me.

 

Your lucky.

 

I have never serviced a trans on a newer vehicle, I usually trade before it becomes and issue... But now with fuel prices my trucks not worth anything....
2 years ago one just liek it woudl be 22K, now 13K

 

I've learned to spend the $$ and service them as it seems to keep them very happy. Yes luck may of helped or the fact that in the past 11 years I've used Amsoil ATF in every trans I own or that I never owned a car/truck that had more then 150,000 miles on it

 

Yup, unless it's not brown and nasty in the first place. If it looks good/smells good just replace the stuff in the pan.

 

DBLR are you dumping AMSOIL ATF in with the ATF+4? When I go to Amsoil ATF in a vehicle I use a BG machine and remove ALL of the other brand.Then later if you just do a pan drop or what not its a lot more beneficial.I had the Ford store install 16qts of Amsoil at 30k.I left the pan and filter alone.Somewhere around 60k to 90k I'll drop the pan and do the filter and top off.Won't even think of changing out ALL of the Amsoil again until 130k plus on that car.

 

Yes I just added Amsoil to the factory ATF always have. In fact I never heard of flush machines until the summer of 2001. The dealerships here tell me their trans machines have a pump that forces the fluid through the trans so as to clean out all of the junk so you can see why I just paid them to drop the pan, install new filter and refill.

Here is a copy of a Chrysler Ad for trans service: Automatic Transmission Tune-Up Service Flush/Recycle. INCLUDES: New Mopar transmission filter • Recycle fluid, replenish additives • Necessary adjustments • Road-test vehicle.

Yes it would be nice to have 100% Amsoil ATF in the trans as I know it will hold up to 100K for normal service.

 

Any off the dealers I've worked at and or go into all I've ever seen is BG machines which the trans itself is the pump.Nothing other then old fliud out,new fliud in is going on inside your trans.At the Caddy store(also Isuzu and Mazda)as well as the Chrysler store the vehicles were hooked up,,raised a foot or so off the floor,started and then put into reverse as its a bit higher pressure or left in drive and run until the sight glass on the machine showed new fliud.Unhooked and trans level checked and corrected if needed then a test drive.Did numerous vehicles DAILY (in a normal economy)enough to wear the fittings on the machines out every few months.It sure cut back on rechecks on leaks with trannys that had pans at angles or straiht up and down.It also made a huge dent in the amount of overhauls and repairs that the fleets we deldt with had in the past.Customers would comment that THEY could feel a differance in shift and torque convertor lock up quality which was NEVER mention by just dropping the pan service.Only way to get the BLACK fliud out of rural MAIL carriers Jeep Cherokees with the AW4 tannys,.

 

Now you know that the marketing types call almost everything “fully synthetic” now that you have been educated you must realize that just because a goober has a keyboard and reads these forums he is not an expert in all things. Now just had my tranny rebuilt (stage III type with mostly ATS components by an ATS Installer here) at 92k not because it needed ( I watched them thru the entire process and it looked just fine) it but because I decided to go ahead and put a bigger turbo on along with some others mods.

Background is over ---- now after about the first 800 miles I put the bigger ATS pan and switched to Amsoil for the whole truck from stem to stern. The way the tranny oil is exchanged by watching the old oil going into the container while pouring in new fluid at about the same rate. Pretty easy to tell when the color changes to the Amsoil tint of red you are done. This is also the way it has been serviced at 38 and 70k as well and works like a charm. Will tell you that heat is the enemy of transmissions and everything you can do to keep it cool will help as I also have an auxiliary tranny cooler mounted to the underside of the bed. For me I believe in Amsoil--- used it in my Duramax tranny (new type at the time was the equivalent of the Allison synthetic) before this Dodge and it worked great and in that truck it lowered the tranny temps.

ANYONE tells you that it is a bad idea to flush the whole system is an IDIOT---thank them -- get into your truck and go somewhere else.

 

Flushing is not bad. It is the idea that is sold with flushing that the filter is ok and doesn't need changed.
Alway--everytime you get inside these trans, change the filter!!!