derek.mckay

I have been getting hounded by a friend of mine for the past couple months about how his 1970 Jeep Grand Wagoneer would pull my CTD around like a toy truck and I have just been blowing him off because I knew that it was a waste of time...it finally got under my skin enough to the point of me calling up some friends for witnesses, and we hooked em up. He has a winch on the front of his Jeep and we didn't have a chain or two strap, so I figured we would just go nose to nose, hook his winch up to one of my tow hooks and have some fun...well, we started in two wheel drive and I just steady pulled him back as he billowed smoke about 50 feet in the air...then we tried him in four-wheel, me in two and he didn't move me at all, I just spun my tires...then I put mine in four-wheel, and it was just a dead lock...no spinning tires from either vehicle and neither would budge, just a bunch of dead-lock and motor revving...now I KNOW that my motor has not only HP on his, but LOTS of TQ as well (we looked up the stock 1973 Cadillac 500 motor that he has in it and it is rated at 235hp/365tq) and on top of that, my truck outweighs his by a good TON. The only thing that I can think of as a reason why my truck wouldn't pull him was because reverse really isn't made for heavy pulling and towing like we were doing, but c'mon...the odds were stacked against him in every aspect and it is just a bit disappointing when the guy with the $2,000 Jeep is now telling me that he bets my $50,000 truck won't even pull his with his just in park and in four-wheel and me pulling against him (which was dumb because 1.) I already pulled him back in two-wheel, but 2.) now he needs a new radiator and fan because his winch setup warped upwards, and he dropped his front driveshaft, tie rod ends, and u-joint fell out) - Derek

Shanajustin

Put the drawbar with a ten ton clevis in the reciever out back, lock it in 4low ( you were in 4low, right?) and hook his winch back on to the clevis. Once he fixes his broken heap! Odds are he'll need to fix it again, probably about 150 ft down the street just to get it home.

derek.mckay

Yeah, I was in 4low...I just couldn't believe that we were dead locked like that with the advantages that I had over that Jeep...Odds are if we were to turn things around and pull away from each other and facing away from each other, I would man-handle his Jeep with the truck...I just expected better than that...I don't feel victorious, you know what I'm saying? His truck his all jacked up, but not because my truck just dominated his, it's because he was in park and not pulling against me...maybe I will ask him if he wants to hook a chain or tow strap up to our tow packages and pull each other that way once he gets his Jeep back in commision! Does anybody have any explanations other than reverse just giving out because it's not meant for towing for my truck to have "given up" like it did? Just a little distraught I guess is all...Derek

anni2VADER

DEREK, your saying u couldnt spin the tires in 4lo?. man i can light up the tires in 4lo, curious

derek.mckay

I wasn't looking to necessarily SPIN my tires in 4-lo, I was looking to take that lighter, less powerful vehicle backwards...like I said, I pulled it backwards just fine in 2-wheel, but put them both in 4-wheel, and it was just a lockup...nothing happened. I have seen a stock 2nd gen take a 98 Powerstroke backwards at about 20mph and the Powerstoke outweighed it...but when the dodge was pulling it backwards, even that old Powerstoke was turning over it's wheels some and putting up more of a fight than what my truck seemed to be doing in reverse against this old Jeep. I would like to think that a 325/610 should make easy work of a 1970 Jeep Wagoneer making 235/356, wouldn't you all? Derek

imaybail

Just remember that when pulling against another vehicle back to back, the vehicle with the highest hookup point will have the advantage. It tends to unload the other vehicle with the lowest pulling point, so a lifted vehicle with the higher draw bar would take the traction away from the lower vehicle.

bigwheels94

I am supprised too.It wouldn't spin the tires in 4-low in reverse? I'll admit that I haven't tryed to pull anything in reverse,but I'd be verry supprised if my truck couldn't do it! I'd have to say that you were either slipping the reverse clutches,or the Torque management system wouldn't let you get that much power to the ground.If I was you I'd hook up to something that would hold it,& try to spin the tires in 1st low.If it still won't I'd take it in,& have the trans & T/C checked out.I was in some deep snow today,& in reverse high,I had to give it some more throttle than I'm used to to get the tires spining,but it did.They suddenly broke free,& I was on the move.

rustyshakelford

i would have hated to have been your tranny. i cant imagine how hot it got doin that. just backing a boat on level ground will send mine well into the 200s. like everyone else said, if your really wanting to embrass him, get a chain or strap and go bumper to bumper. i think youll be suprised

brett

derek.mckay

I would have to say that pulling againt another decently sized vehicle on pavement in fourwheel low and in reverse would be MUCH more strain on the powertrain than being in some deep snow, bigwheels94...I couldn't feel any indications of anything slipping, so I think that my tranny is ok...I will admit right off the bat that my stock TC is crap when it comes to HEAVY pulling, and a stock 48re is right behind it in not being able to "run with the big dogs", but it's not like I was trying to outpull a 6 ton tractor and there was just now way it was happening...it was a 5000+/- pound gasser probably putting 200hp and 300lbs of tq to the ground...that pull off, whether it was in reverse or not, made me feel like my truck was weak and as ANY lover of trucks knows, that's not a good feeling...I have all sorts of upgrades planned for my truck in the future, but a vehicle that is factory rated to pull 18,000lbs +/- shouldn't have a problem at ALL pulling the POS I hooked up to...and for imaybail, I understand what you are saying about unloading the other vehicle, but his winch is pretty even with my tow hooks because of my truck being slightly higher than his, but like I have said numerous times, I outweigh that truck by a good ton and have nearly twice the hp and tq going to the street...like the thread says, I am just disappointed, I figured my truck would have done better than it did...Derek

derek.mckay

bretteaton, you REALLY think that it was being in reverse that made the difference? because that is what I am REALLY hoping was the problem...I KNOW that reverse isn't made for towing, so you think that facing away from each other with a tow strap will make THAT much of a difference? because I am hoping BADLY that my truck hasn't been lowered to that Jeep's performance level...Derek

rustyshakelford

turn it around. im tellin ya just backing the little trailer causes so much slipage in the TC its unreal. mine just doenst have that much umph in reverse example. i took one of the wave runners to the lake the other day to run some of the fuel out of it for winter. i was backing down hill the entire time in some soft dirt. the temp went to like 210 just going 30 feet or so. the little ramp is washed out a bit so its got some decent little areas and i have to put it in 4x4 to get throught those w/ out slipping to much. i know what your talking about by mashing the motor and not going anywhere. when he gets the jeep back up in running, i have $10 youll pull him all over the place if you go bumper to bumper

brett

bigwheels94

Well if you're sure it wasn't sliping somewhere,It still may be the torque management system.It's there for the protection of the drivetrain afterall.So I wonder if it limits more in reverse than in forward.Otherwise,I'm with the last guy.Turn around,& pull him up the street with his tires smoking,& see how much he has to pay to fix it that time.
Also.I was dissapointed with my old ford too when I tryed to pull something in reverse.It just wouldn't do it.I turned around,& had it moveing in a few minutes.

derek.mckay

Right on, sounds good...I'm not too sure that after having to pay to get a new radiator, fan, maybe belts, tie rod ends, u-joint and front half shaft and get them installed, he is going to want to do it again, but we'll see and I will definitely keep ya'll posted there...Derek

derek.mckay

By the way, I DID notice that my engine temp shot up a decent bit higher than it normally would be running...just didn't know that it was from trying to run her hard in reverse...I figured it was to be expected no matter how you're pulling a heavy load, but I will take that into consideration next time...that is if ol' Jim is up for a next time Derek

CD in NM

From the list of parts he has to get - Who says you didn't win the pull? That's a lot of stuff to waste trying to hold up your end don't you think? I would have thought that reverse would have been yout 'tightest' gear since it is used the least. I was pulling some pretty heavy stuff in reverse with my truck the other day and the power was phenomenal in 4H, in fact, I did not use 4L because I knew I'd break the wheels loose. Sometimes you get a better pull in 4H, that said, 4L is beyond phenomenal for dead pulling.

CD