donhov

I am in Georgia and on the way to Flordia. per my other posts CP3 failed last week and dealer replaced Monday. We left Thursday am towing 5er and got into lower Tenn this noon and noticed front of 5er with oil on it. Checked truck and all levels seemed OK. Looked under truck and saw quite a bit of oil on the under carrage. Found small town dealer and he felt after cleaning the mess up that the plug that was removed from the timing cover was put back in cross threaded. He did not have one in stock but was worried about wrenching the plastic plug as it "might" break and then I would be stranded. Agreed and continued driving but check oil at each stop. So far it hasn't moved over 1/4 inch on dipstick. Called dealer in Brandon Fl , Brandon Dodge, and asked if he had part as I had numbers and he advised me that he would have to charge me an $85 diganostic fee as another dealer had originally fixed it and may have caused the problem. Long story short does anyone in that area know of another dealer that I might call or go to. Can wait till monday am but can not go without truck for any length of time as it is only transportation and need to pick up someone at Tampa air port tuesday afternoon. Beganing to really regret this trip but would appreciate any assistance. I can buy the plug and change it roadside if all else fails but still not 100% sure that is the problem due to the amounts of oil splattered under the truck. Only need a 3/8 ratchet head to change as long as it dosent break.
Please see follup post below.
Thanks for any advice or assistance....Don

J BODY

I doubt that it is cross threaded, but more likely cracked. They don't require much torque to install and break rather easily..........yes, I'm speaking from experience.

rammtuff

Worst case pay the bill and advise your northern dealership that you had a problem on the road and will be seeking compensation. Better yet ask the Fl dealer to call the northern dealer and work the bill out themselves.

donhov

Pulled into Floridia campground this early afternoon and shut off truck. Made a funny clunk when shutting down. Would not restart. Opened hood, shroud broken, fan laying in bottom of radiator cavity, can't tell how much damage other than some wiring. Called Good Sam had truck towed to Brandon Dodge. Lost less than 1 qt oil in 600 miles but this looks like fan just "fell" off. belt still intact. No warning or codes. Removed all quad stuff before towing and kept in the 5er. Truck covered in oil both drivers side and underneath. Camper also. Of course no one at DC this weekend. Guess I will be on the phone early Monday (hope they are open) or Tuesday am. Have to rent a car as we are stranded now. Good camper neighbors will assist but I don't want to be a pain. If I can get a lift into Brandon when Enterprise rental opens will get a car. Need to call Michigan dealer and Brandon dealer.

Life goes on I guess, but begaining to suspect tech did something major wrong, like not tightening fan bolts down and stripping plug.

This wasn't how I wanted to start the new year.....

Could have happened on the road also so in that respect was lucky.

Had to vent.....

Superduty

I don't blame you one bit. I'd be wild. Warranty is for the birds. Nobody touches my truck but me. Sad part is the dealership got paid $70 an hour to damage your truck. No excuses allowed for this sort of thing.

What did you mean by it wouldn't start ? Wouldn't turn over ? Wouldn't fire while cranking ?

I can't figure out how the fan would fall off. The only thing I can think of is that the tech removed it via the screw on hub and didn't tighten it again. Stupid error. If the fins are bent on your rad, demand a new rad.

Guardrail

Enterprise should pick you up. (That's what they advertise anyway) I'd call the local agency and explain the problem, they should come and get you if it's not too far.

donhov

Truck cranks but will not start. Acts like no fuel but who knows at this point. Have fuel thru filter as drain valve spews out fuel. Looks on fan like as I said it came off. Belt is intact and in place, fan is laying at bottom of fan housing with chunk missing from top of shroud so would guess fan came up enough to hit shroud and break it. I don't know how it attaches but if a single screw/nut yes, looks like it came off. Would the tech have removed it to replace the CP3? Now thoughts are how long for parts, how much if I have to pay for it, etc,etc. Fl dealer may not want to work with Mi dealer if that is how it goes. Can see major problems coming up here. Can't see enough of radiator yet to tell if/how much damage, but no antifreeze leaks that I could see. Now problem is we have no wheels and can't even contact DC till Mon or in case of the holiday Tuesday to get a rental. My dealer in Mi knows there was a problem with the oil leak but this is going to be much more major. Guess we will have to foot the bill for the rental till can contact DC first of the week. Dealer truck was towed to is 28 miles away so can't even go there easily to see what is going on.

Second problem, only enterprise open due to holiday is at Tampa airport, no pickup or delivery till locals open monday or tues and at airport also have to pay airport tax of $10.92 also.

rammtuff

Didn't realize you were your own warranty station (quad box)
Going to be bad if you foot the bill.
Before you jump down the dealers throat remember the two problems could be totally unrelated.

donhov

Quad box completely removed. It is the towing box and I don't run hard or hot rod this. Bought it for the millage gains and towing assistance.

Nothing that happened should be related to the box. More than likely relatred to problems with the prior repairs done in Mi. Don't plan or going out for blood but need vehicle and someone screwed up big time or just another problem with truck. This is the third tow in less than 4 weeks so obviously getting very discouraged at this point.

Superduty

"Truck cranks but will not start."

The crankshaft position sensor comes down the front of the engine. I'll guess the fan took out the wiring harness to it. The codes will tell what is and isn't damaged/working.

"Its just a towing box..." <paraphrased> Box operation affects the CP3 and rail pressure relief valve. You were lucky to get warranty on this in the first place.

donhov

Didn't mean to belittle fact that box was installed. Just that it wasn't something for brute power type of use. Years ago I drove a b-gas dragster, getting to old for that stuff, just wanted more millage. Enough about that....

2 codes showing:
P0148 fuel delivery error and
P0483, something about fan circuit, book is in truck at dealers so only trying to remember code to post here.

DC won't foot bill for rental til Dealer gets in to diganose and they only have a skeleton crew (holiday) so getting rental later today. Hopefully DC will assist tomorrow.

Superduty

I understand where you were coming from with the box. You weren't looking to set HP records, only improve your towing. I am sympathetic to that.

The fan probably took out the fan controller harness. It comes up from the bottom of the radiator, from a harness coming from the bottom of the engine. Wires might be shorted in that harness, leading to the fuel delivery error. Or, maybe, your CP3 or lift pump are shot again.

P0148 is the High Pressure Common Rail Checksum error. That is actually a misnomer because it doesn't have anything to do with a checksum in the conventional meaning of the term.

It means the ECM is commanding pressure and the rail sensor isn't seeing any.

See page 9-1116 of the 3rd volume of the 05 shop manual.

The diagnostic list goes like this:

1) fix other DTCs. (Like your fan error...)
2) check for fuel leaks.
3) check that the FCA on the CP3 is OK.
4) assuming you can start the engine, check that the pressure read from the rail sensor goes up when you step on the throttle
5) compare the fuel pressure set point on the ECM to the fuel pressure read from the rail.
6) check the cascade overflow valve is working on the CP3.
7) check that the fuel drain line check valve is working
8) check that the return lines aren't blocked.
9) check the lift pump
10) check that the rail over pressure valve is working
11) check for leaking fuel injectors
12) check the CP3 itself works.

I think I am going to start billing DC for my time on this board.

donhov

Wish I was knowledgable and young enough to get into all this stuff again. When I was in my 20's bought old cars, fixed them to keep running as necessary and all that good stuff. Now that I'm over 60 just want to put in the key and go with no problems. That was why I bought the Dodge Ram Diesel. After the last few weeks I am begaining to regret that purchase. Hope it was just the dealer/mechanic I have been going to. Guess after this will have to find another dealer for warranty work in the Jackson/Lansing area. Any one know anything about Snethkemp Dodge in Lansing? Good or bad? If not anywhere else without driving 100 miles to get there? Hillsdale is quite a jaunt but might be worth it if problems are because of Jackson dealer. Won't know until tomorrow I guess.

As a side note, had fuel coming out the bleed valve on the fuel filter, didn't measure but seemed to have some pressure. Filter was new less than 2000 miles ago, when lift pump was replaced. Oil leak had to be something dealer did when he replaced CP3 last week. Could see timing cover plug touching on 1 side and gapping 1/8th inchon the other so would guess it's either cross threaded, broke or the o-ring stuck somehow into/under it which leads me to wonder if fan was also his screw-up or just a coincidence. Like I said all my diagonosis was done standing looking into engine compartment with oil all over everything and seeeing fan laying in bottom of fan cavity. Just too distressed to make any rationial determinations. Thought about removing fan and decided to just leave all as it was. As above when dealer opened this am looked again but couldnt see anything more but did check codes, P0148 abd P0483 I think.
Guess now that I've calmed down a little and was able to talk to a few people at DC and both dealers I am a bit more optomistic that something will happen right now. Still not happy but seeing a little light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks for all the symphathy and greatly appreciate the info from Superduty. You have gone beyond and above here on this thread and many others.

I greatly appreciate it. Don

Superduty

"Wish I was knowledgable and young enough to get into all this stuff again."

It certainly isn't difficult or really complicated. It is just different more than anything. If it is any consolation, I find the routing and operation of vacuum hoses on old cars hard to understand. Age doesn't matter.

"As above when dealer opened this am looked again but couldnt see anything more but did check codes, P0148 abd P0483 I think."

If you are telling me that they pulled those codes after they said the ECM fried, then I've got news for you. IT ISN'T. If the ECM responds to the scan tool then it can be (re) programmed. There isn't anything wrong with the ECM (BIOS) then. (It isn't a BIOS... more like what is called a boot loader.)

If the ECM talks to the scan tool then you are more than half way home.

Don't worry about fuel issues yet. Get the code fixed from the fan or at least make sure that the 5V supply bus is up, clear all the codes in the ECM and crank the engine. Watch for crank position sensor (RPM), ECM rail fuel pressure desired, actual and injection duration.

If there is no fuel pressure once you've done that, you need to determine if there actually is no pressure or if the rail sensor is shot/not getting a supply voltage. You can cross that bridge when you get there.

Guys, the 3rd gen Cummins engine is excellent and fairly easy to work on.

It needs a couple things to run:

- a powered and working ECM
- a crankshaft signal
- fuel pressure in the rail

Once it gets that, it will start actuating injectors. And if there is fuel in the rail, they will fire and your engine will run. No magic. Nothing to be afraid of.

It is easy to check if the ECM works. Does the Wait to Start light come on and go off ? That light is controlled by the Bus communications. If it works, the ECM is working, at least somewhat. Does the tach go off of zero when cranking. That means the crank sensor works as does the ECM.

Then you need a scan tool. Is it registering rail pressure ? Is it giving the injectors an injection duration ?

Simple, easy stuff.

Superduty

One more thing. If the ECM really was fried, it would

a) not talk with the scan tool.
b) if it did talk, it would give codes like
P0602:checksum error
P0604 ECM software error
P0606 ECM hardware error
P0607 ECM internal error

If the dealer hasn't given you those code numbers, then all this talk about your ECM being fried is PURE BS.