No drain plugs for diff's?
09-24-2003, 09:04 PM
#46
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
Im curious, has anyone drained their 11.5 AA rear axle and added the 7.65 pts of gear oil. If so where did the level end up??
There seems to be various opinions as to what is the proper level. I have read through several threads and and saw anywhere from the bottom of the fill hole to 1-1/4" below.
Also I can't see where filling the fluid to the bottom of the fill hole would cause it to blow out of the vent tube, since the vent tube is located on top of the left axle tube which is several inches above the fill plug. In fact my manual says the level is OK if it is up to the bottom of the fill plug hole.
My 04 manual says the proper level for the 11.5 AA axle is 1/4" +/- 1/4" below the fill plug hole. That translates to right at the hole if it is +1/4" or 1/2" below the fill hole if is -1/4 inch. So by my manual if the level is at the fill hole or no more than 1/2" below it the level is OK.
What does your manual give for the level??
There seems to be various opinions as to what is the proper level. I have read through several threads and and saw anywhere from the bottom of the fill hole to 1-1/4" below.
Also I can't see where filling the fluid to the bottom of the fill hole would cause it to blow out of the vent tube, since the vent tube is located on top of the left axle tube which is several inches above the fill plug. In fact my manual says the level is OK if it is up to the bottom of the fill plug hole.
My 04 manual says the proper level for the 11.5 AA axle is 1/4" +/- 1/4" below the fill plug hole. That translates to right at the hole if it is +1/4" or 1/2" below the fill hole if is -1/4 inch. So by my manual if the level is at the fill hole or no more than 1/2" below it the level is OK.
What does your manual give for the level??
09-24-2003, 09:35 PM
#47
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
I'll add some more confusion to all this. My owner's manual states the fluid level should be 1/4" below the fill hole, +/- 1/4", just as most have previously stated (mine took almost a full quart to bring it to this level). However the dealer used the incorrect lube - straight 90 synthetic, not 75W90 as the owner's manual states. Dealer says no problem, DC says only use what the manual says, and that I should change it ASAP. Think either the dealer or DC want to foot the bill? 
The manual says nothing about using 75W140, but if you go to Dodge's web site, under their towing guide (http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/basics...onditions.html), they state for trucks with the towing package, "for all trailer towing or heavy duty applications replace the factory fill rear axle lubricant with an SAE 75W-140 synthetic...". I wonder why they don't tell us this in the owner's manual??? ???
I'm getting ready to swap mine out due to the dealer 'error', so should /I use 75W-90 as the manual says, or 75W-140 as their site's towing guide says? ??? I was planning on using Mobile1 75W90. If I should use 75W-140, what brand should I use? I tow a 30' 5er.
The manual says nothing about using 75W140, but if you go to Dodge's web site, under their towing guide (http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/basics...onditions.html), they state for trucks with the towing package, "for all trailer towing or heavy duty applications replace the factory fill rear axle lubricant with an SAE 75W-140 synthetic...". I wonder why they don't tell us this in the owner's manual??? ???
I'm getting ready to swap mine out due to the dealer 'error', so should /I use 75W-90 as the manual says, or 75W-140 as their site's towing guide says? ??? I was planning on using Mobile1 75W90. If I should use 75W-140, what brand should I use? I tow a 30' 5er.
09-24-2003, 11:00 PM
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
I will add my experiences to this thread and answer a couple of questions spread out in the posts. I will add that I am one of those that believes the level should be the bottom of the fill hole, but each to their own.
I have a Cal S.O. NV4500 4x4 truck and have ran over 20k miles so far with the diff oil front and rear to the bottom of the fill hole. When I say bottom of the hole I mean when you pull the fill plug on level ground it looks like a flat piece of glass in there looking in with a small pen light. I have had no problems with oil puking out and there are absolutely no leaks. I have towed pretty heavy for more than half the trucks miles.
I changed Trans, Tcase, and diff oil at 1700 miles and am about to change it out again. I used Redline throughout, MTL in the tranny, ATF4 in the Tcase and 75w-90NS in the diffs. The rear diff on my truck is 11.5" AAM, I know some here have said that you only get the 11.5" in the HO, but it is standard in the 5 speed Cal and Maine 2500 trucks with the SO. If you get the Auto in Cal you get the 10.5" rear end on the 2500's.
I will also point out that my diffs were low upon delivery and the dealer could not figure out what to put in it. I topped them of with Valvoline Synthetic for breakin and switched as stated above. No noise or problems of any kind. I have changed the oil in three other trucks for friends and they are running strong as well with the fill level to the bottom of the hole.
Another note for the guy with grey stuff on his magnetic fill plug. Wipe it off with a rag and look at it, it will be very fine metallic particles that were picked up by the magnet. Usually occurs during break-in and you should not see too much on there after running new oil for awhile, but the magnet is doing what it is supposed to do.
CTDCAL.
I have a Cal S.O. NV4500 4x4 truck and have ran over 20k miles so far with the diff oil front and rear to the bottom of the fill hole. When I say bottom of the hole I mean when you pull the fill plug on level ground it looks like a flat piece of glass in there looking in with a small pen light. I have had no problems with oil puking out and there are absolutely no leaks. I have towed pretty heavy for more than half the trucks miles.
I changed Trans, Tcase, and diff oil at 1700 miles and am about to change it out again. I used Redline throughout, MTL in the tranny, ATF4 in the Tcase and 75w-90NS in the diffs. The rear diff on my truck is 11.5" AAM, I know some here have said that you only get the 11.5" in the HO, but it is standard in the 5 speed Cal and Maine 2500 trucks with the SO. If you get the Auto in Cal you get the 10.5" rear end on the 2500's.
I will also point out that my diffs were low upon delivery and the dealer could not figure out what to put in it. I topped them of with Valvoline Synthetic for breakin and switched as stated above. No noise or problems of any kind. I have changed the oil in three other trucks for friends and they are running strong as well with the fill level to the bottom of the hole.
Another note for the guy with grey stuff on his magnetic fill plug. Wipe it off with a rag and look at it, it will be very fine metallic particles that were picked up by the magnet. Usually occurs during break-in and you should not see too much on there after running new oil for awhile, but the magnet is doing what it is supposed to do.
CTDCAL.
09-24-2003, 11:07 PM
#51
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
Forgot to mention for the guy that asked, the 11.5" rear diff took slightly less (and I mean very slightly less) than 4 quarts which is somewhere between 7.5 and 8 pints, so what is stated will bring it up to where you want it.
Changing the diff oil was pretty easy, but I did lift the truck from side to side after most of the oil was out and got some more out of the axle tubes. I did that because I was changing brand of oil, probably will not bother with it on subsequent changes unless I see some contamination as I will be using the same brand.
CTDCAL.
Changing the diff oil was pretty easy, but I did lift the truck from side to side after most of the oil was out and got some more out of the axle tubes. I did that because I was changing brand of oil, probably will not bother with it on subsequent changes unless I see some contamination as I will be using the same brand.
CTDCAL.
09-25-2003, 07:22 AM
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
Thanks CTDCAL for the info. I think you answered my question about where the level is after changing the gear oil. Specifically, was the level after adding "slightly less than 4 qts" at the bottom of the fill plug??
09-25-2003, 08:32 AM
#53
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
[quote author=t6_man link=board=20;threadid=19803;start=45#msg188922 date=1064457354]I was planning on using Mobile1 75W90. If I should use 75W-140, what brand should I use? I tow a 30' 5er.
[/quote]
I thought I read somewhere that you HAD to use the Mopar oil specified?? Did I hear that wrong??
[/quote]
I thought I read somewhere that you HAD to use the Mopar oil specified?? Did I hear that wrong??
09-25-2003, 08:47 AM
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
[quote author=t6_man link=board=20;threadid=19803;start=45#msg188922 date=1064457354]
I'll add some more confusion to all this. My owner's manual states the fluid level should be 1/4" below the fill hole, +/- 1/4", just as most have previously stated (mine took almost a full quart to bring it to this level).
[/quote]
now thats different from what has been posted here before, no? If this is true, then "filling to the brim" like CTDCAL does, is within spec! well, why not? I always would err on the fat side of the spec anyway.
dealer is smoking something he shouldn't. you should go straight to the service manager and ask them to retrieve the latest STAR line information regarding your truck. Tell him that AA ships with 75W90 synthetic and thats what they want in there. Were you aware that communication problems early on in the 03 model year caused DC techs to put in the wrong lubricant? I've talked to AA myself about this and 75W90 is the right stuff.
As to the consequences of 90W, well, probably not much in warm climates but the point is that your dealer is out of whack with both AA recommendations and the STAR line which he should have consulted before telling you this.
thats old information and appropriate for the 2nd gen DANA axles which come shipped with dino lube. Says that in the 02 owners manual ;D in fact, 75W-140 is one of the mistakes DC techs made early on, according to the AA guy I spoke with.
fill with 75W-90 synthetic. I'm not an expert on brands, but have heard excelent comments about redline, Amsoil, and mobile-1 as well. And if your manual says 1/4" below the fill hole +/- 1/4" then fill 'er up to the brim! make sure your truck is level first of course 
But I would first call AA so you can hear the 75W90 recommendation yourself. Then make an appointment to see the service manager in person, explain your findings, and ask him to verify with the STAR line that 90W synthetic is ok to use. If you are convinced that the dealer put the wrong stuff in there, then he should change it out for you. Especially if there is record of what incorrect lubricant was used. If he still won't budge, or STAR says 90W is ok, then I'd go by the AA recommendation and changer 'er out to 75W-90. you'll get marginally better startup lubrication in very cold weather from the 75W viscocity.
If you can show that the dealer put in the wrong stuff and suspect that he's just trying to avoid the cost of correcting his mistake, then you can always use letters and phone calls to start ruffling feathers. but sometimes you can win the battle and loose the war, meaning that this battle might not be worth fighting. you may have a better relationship with the dealer if you look the other way and do this yourself -- especially with 90W in there which I have to agree is the same as 75W-90 except when cold.
I'll add some more confusion to all this. My owner's manual states the fluid level should be 1/4" below the fill hole, +/- 1/4", just as most have previously stated (mine took almost a full quart to bring it to this level).
[/quote]
now thats different from what has been posted here before, no? If this is true, then "filling to the brim" like CTDCAL does, is within spec! well, why not? I always would err on the fat side of the spec anyway.
However the dealer used the incorrect lube - straight 90 synthetic, not 75W90 as the owner's manual states. Dealer says no problem.
As to the consequences of 90W, well, probably not much in warm climates but the point is that your dealer is out of whack with both AA recommendations and the STAR line which he should have consulted before telling you this.
The manual says nothing about using 75W140, but if you go to Dodge's web site, under their towing guide (http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/basics...onditions.html), they state for trucks with the towing package, "for all trailer towing or heavy duty applications replace the factory fill rear axle lubricant with an SAE 75W-140 synthetic...". I wonder why they don't tell us this in the owner's manual??? ???
I'm getting ready to swap mine out due to the dealer 'error', so should /I use 75W-90 as the manual says, or 75W-140 as their site's towing guide says? ??? I was planning on using Mobile1 75W90. If I should use 75W-140, what brand should I use? I tow a 30' 5er.
But I would first call AA so you can hear the 75W90 recommendation yourself. Then make an appointment to see the service manager in person, explain your findings, and ask him to verify with the STAR line that 90W synthetic is ok to use. If you are convinced that the dealer put the wrong stuff in there, then he should change it out for you. Especially if there is record of what incorrect lubricant was used. If he still won't budge, or STAR says 90W is ok, then I'd go by the AA recommendation and changer 'er out to 75W-90. you'll get marginally better startup lubrication in very cold weather from the 75W viscocity.
If you can show that the dealer put in the wrong stuff and suspect that he's just trying to avoid the cost of correcting his mistake, then you can always use letters and phone calls to start ruffling feathers. but sometimes you can win the battle and loose the war, meaning that this battle might not be worth fighting. you may have a better relationship with the dealer if you look the other way and do this yourself -- especially with 90W in there which I have to agree is the same as 75W-90 except when cold.
09-25-2003, 10:18 AM
#55
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
[quote author=Hoss link=board=20;threadid=19803;start=45#msg189084 date=1064496755]
[quote author=t6_man link=board=20;threadid=19803;start=45#msg188922 date=1064457354]I was planning on using Mobile1 75W90. If I should use 75W-140, what brand should I use? I tow a 30' 5er.
[/quote]
I thought I read somewhere that you HAD to use the Mopar oil specified?? Did I hear that wrong??
[/quote]
No auto manufacturer can require the use of a specific brand to maintain a warranty. This is federal law. They can only require that you use certain specifications, i.e., GL-5 and 75W-90. Hoss, since the Republic of Texas is part of the Union use the brand you want.
[quote author=t6_man link=board=20;threadid=19803;start=45#msg188922 date=1064457354]I was planning on using Mobile1 75W90. If I should use 75W-140, what brand should I use? I tow a 30' 5er.
[/quote]
I thought I read somewhere that you HAD to use the Mopar oil specified?? Did I hear that wrong??
[/quote]
No auto manufacturer can require the use of a specific brand to maintain a warranty. This is federal law. They can only require that you use certain specifications, i.e., GL-5 and 75W-90. Hoss, since the Republic of Texas is part of the Union use the brand you want.
09-25-2003, 10:38 AM
#56
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
Yes Sierra is right, due to the magnusson moss act I believe.
A grey or whitish fluid is most definitely due to water emulsion in the diff, and should be changed. Grey matter on the drain plug, which I believe is magnetic, would be wear particles...wipe it off and if the fluid isn't milky, you're good to go.
A grey or whitish fluid is most definitely due to water emulsion in the diff, and should be changed. Grey matter on the drain plug, which I believe is magnetic, would be wear particles...wipe it off and if the fluid isn't milky, you're good to go.
09-25-2003, 08:38 PM
#57
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
I guess I just misunderstood something I read on here. I thought someone here said that you HAD to use the oil provided by DC in the rear end. That's why I haven't checked mine...I didn't want to go buy the oil from them if it was low. :
09-25-2003, 09:53 PM
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
rlyoung,
You got it, just less than 4 quarts to the dead bottom of the fill hole. I put it in fairly slow so it would settle out in the axle tubes, drove it about 20 miles checked it again, no change in level. Last check at 10k miles and it had not moved one bit. Going to change it out next week, got 22k miles now and I get a wholesale deal on the redline so I don't mind changing it every 20k or so. My thinking is that it can't hurt to keep it fresh with all the towing that I have been doing. Obviously I am pretty **** about maintainence on my truck, probably costs me a little more, but I tend to run the miles up pretty good without any major mishaps, probably just jinxed myself by saying that though.
By the way for the others that posted above, the Redline 75w-90NS synthetic meets AAM Spec for the 10.5" and 11.5", as do some of the high performance oils such as amsoil ect... that are GL-5 spec.
Here is the pitch from redline:
"75W90 NS - a GL-5 which does not contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials. This makes the transmission synchronizers come to equal speeds more quickly, allowing faster shifting and much easier low-temperature shifting. Can also be used in racing limited-slip differentials where weak spring design causes too much wheel spin."
I use the NS because of the configuration of the AAM LS in this vehicle, as the NS does not have friction modifier built in and it is not needed in the LS. The only reason I am using Redline is the deal I get on it, any other High Performace Sythetic GL-5 75w-90 would be great as well, the key IMHO is to keep it clean and full within spec.
By the way, the last check showed very little if any build up on the magnet of the fill plug, it was probably 1/16th inch thick after the first 2000 miles on the truck, then clean after that.
Sorry for the long post guys, I guess I am just too passionate about maintainence and long winded to boot.
CTDCAL.
You got it, just less than 4 quarts to the dead bottom of the fill hole. I put it in fairly slow so it would settle out in the axle tubes, drove it about 20 miles checked it again, no change in level. Last check at 10k miles and it had not moved one bit. Going to change it out next week, got 22k miles now and I get a wholesale deal on the redline so I don't mind changing it every 20k or so. My thinking is that it can't hurt to keep it fresh with all the towing that I have been doing. Obviously I am pretty **** about maintainence on my truck, probably costs me a little more, but I tend to run the miles up pretty good without any major mishaps, probably just jinxed myself by saying that though.
By the way for the others that posted above, the Redline 75w-90NS synthetic meets AAM Spec for the 10.5" and 11.5", as do some of the high performance oils such as amsoil ect... that are GL-5 spec.
Here is the pitch from redline:
"75W90 NS - a GL-5 which does not contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials. This makes the transmission synchronizers come to equal speeds more quickly, allowing faster shifting and much easier low-temperature shifting. Can also be used in racing limited-slip differentials where weak spring design causes too much wheel spin."
I use the NS because of the configuration of the AAM LS in this vehicle, as the NS does not have friction modifier built in and it is not needed in the LS. The only reason I am using Redline is the deal I get on it, any other High Performace Sythetic GL-5 75w-90 would be great as well, the key IMHO is to keep it clean and full within spec.
By the way, the last check showed very little if any build up on the magnet of the fill plug, it was probably 1/16th inch thick after the first 2000 miles on the truck, then clean after that.
Sorry for the long post guys, I guess I am just too passionate about maintainence and long winded to boot.
CTDCAL.
09-27-2003, 10:56 PM
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Re:No drain plugs for diff's?
[quote author=BIGCUMMINZ link=board=20;threadid=19803;start=30#msg188758 date=1064438904]
with an h.o. you have the 11.5.....
i read the diff fluid should be 3/4 " below the fill hole...
i checked the level today is it normal for there the be a grayish color to the fluid? the fluid i saw was on the drain plug end.....
is this normal or what?
[/quote]
I just read this thread for the first time. I dumped the OEM lube from the front diff. today at 47,000 miles. The lube was very clean, but had a blue-ish silvery grey appearance to it an I think this was perfectly normal. Unless your lube is very light grey to milky tan, I think you're fine. Granted we're comparing Dana to AA. I installed a Mag-Hytek cover and Mobil1.
with an h.o. you have the 11.5.....
i read the diff fluid should be 3/4 " below the fill hole...
i checked the level today is it normal for there the be a grayish color to the fluid? the fluid i saw was on the drain plug end.....
is this normal or what?
[/quote]
I just read this thread for the first time. I dumped the OEM lube from the front diff. today at 47,000 miles. The lube was very clean, but had a blue-ish silvery grey appearance to it an I think this was perfectly normal. Unless your lube is very light grey to milky tan, I think you're fine. Granted we're comparing Dana to AA. I installed a Mag-Hytek cover and Mobil1.