Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=P Kennedy link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=15#msg171739 date=1060736610]
Based on the ECM info and high idling everybody I know here has voided the warranty. As explained in many previous posts there is a mechanical throttle installed on my 2001 fo the purpose of high idling. Mymaur is right in that most trucks at truck stops in warm weather are idling unnecessarily or are they- a good cool sleep makes you more alert and aware on the road, and we sleep there in the winter too. Back to CTD's, idling in warmer climates is a waste of fuel unless the cost and wear and tear of starting is factored in. Stopping for 1-10 minutes causes more wear on the starter (a pricey item on these trucks) so I leave it idle, going in somewhere to do business shut it off except in temps below -10F. Back to Cummins in a different climate they say (despite their own manual) maintaining regular operating temp 170-200F and oil pressure when idling, which means usually somewhere between 1200-1800rpm depnding on just how cold it is thus preventing not coking (a turbo problem) but "slobbering" of unburned fuel. Yes when ever the engine runs it is wearing out however standing on the side of the road at -10 or below is less than appealing vs leaving it high idle and having a running vehicle. Some applications for Cummins,Cat,Detroit,Mack etc. require idling high-low and yet these engines which measure their lives in hours not miles live as long or longer than the almighty Dodge Cummins. Surprizingly the Dodge manual which contradicts the Cummins industrial manual and yet this little engine lived hard lives in yellow iron long before Dr. Dodge got involved with it. I have said it before and will repeat DC cannot refuse warranty based on presumption but must have physical proof that what you did indeed broke it. They must also prove when taken to court how a DC Cummins B would differ in a failure than an industrial B which shares the same physical components as the pickup. Compilation of maintenance logs covering all Cummins B engines would disprove their claims as untrue myths. Back to our Cummins boys who say that anytime the engine runs it wears but proper idling technique will give hours of maintenance free life and the B is far more forgiving than an NTC engine which we ran continously without the headaches DC claims you will have. I believe whole heartedly that each of you own your own Dodge pickup and may operate as you see fit however not every one of those 10 million truckers out there can be wrong with the experience they have to share vs DC and its technical rep's who deal with one little diesel. The engineering team of DC does not live in the North country and we don't all live in labratory conditions so I can see where variations of the right way may be adapted to accommadate the necessary. Coincidentally the only failure we have seen here is not Cummins but DC engineering (aka powertrain matching). The manual for my Dodge is still where it belongs in the glove box just like my 91 W350 CTD. PK
[/quote]

Ummmm.....so what you're saying is that you don't have a problem with high idling?? ???

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=Doug link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=15#msg171705 date=1060729677]
cummins/DC will recommend against it, and will use this data from the ECM if you get into a warranty dispute.[/quote]Doug, is this hearsay? Or is this documented somewhere?

Hoss, look what you started ............. [laugh]

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=P Kennedy link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171854 date=1060751413]
Some of you folks are lucky enough to live far enough South that on your coldest day your Cummins diesel will warm up by driving slowly in less than five miles. On a cold winter day we may see a high of - 35F which means if you shut your truck off with no auxilary means of pre-heat it will NOT start, the batteries are topping out at 40% cranking power and the heater grid will kill them in 2 preheats. Once started it will take 15-25 minutes to reach 140F running at 1200rpm with the heater shut off and the entire front rad and oil pan tarped in. Now realize that winter fuel thinner in content as you well know is less efficient reducing the abilty to create heat, as well normal human reaction to all this is crank that old heater wide open and again that steals more heat. At -40F it is necessary to high idle at 16-1800 rpm with heater on low in order to maintain 170F the low side of "normal operating temperature" so yes Hoss according to Cummins up here it would be necessary to high idle. On any of the trucks if you see black oily tar like goo either dripping down the stacks or dribbling out the tail pipe it is too cold (slobbering). The only way to overcome this on a diesel is work it or rev the crap out of it so finding the majic combo is important. We have Mack 350HP engines that we leave the throttle at 2100rpm all night with the rad completely blocked off and they still have a tendancy to slobber below -30F. In the North country we have upon occasion tarped the whole cab leaving the stacks sticking out to retain enough heat so everything stays warm but the engine is still high idling at 1800 RPM. But Cummins says idling burns fuel and wears out the engine, they also say if it is running to cold you will score a cylinder wall. How many times have we seen a truck leaving a truck stop after idling all night with the A/C on in the heat and yet big blue trails of smoke belch out. Unburned fuel from to low an idle, cylinder washing and instant high stress loads kill an engine faster than proper high idle procedure. Ideally a preheater like a Pro-Heat unit is the best, truck engine is shut down and for a little bit of diesel it draws off the tank relatively cheap to operate. Down side in the cold is let stay on too long without charging the batteries and no cranking power to start the engine. Lots of diesels idle in the bush all winter long and work all day yet still go 15-20,000 hours multiplyed by an average speed of 50mph = 750,000-1,000,000 miles. So according to Dodge our trucks and equipment high idling up here should not be able to do this. Our CTD's get just as many miles as yours down South and lots of our class 8 trucks are inframed at the same interval as heavy machinery with the above quoted hours so go figure. I do know a loafing idling engine with low oil pressure suddenly loaded up and cold will die prematurely, a toasty warm high idled one will not be subjected to the same instant heat stress. The Dodge book also tells me not cover the rad in the winter but have yet to see a pyro reading at -20 to warrant the cold air rushing through the radiator opening, but hey they are the experts so they tell us. PK
[/quote]

Ummmm....so what you're saying is that it's cold where you live?? ;)

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=bulabula link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171905 date=1060779302]Hoss, look what you started ............. [laugh]
[/quote]

Hey...it's a legitimate question. It might seem like a waste of fuel to some....but when I'm sitting in my truck eating lunch and it's 105 outside I kind of like to turn the AC on. In the winter...when it drops down into the 30's...I like to have heat. I just want to know how long I can idle at 1200 RPM's without causing damage. ;D

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=Hoss link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171935 date=1060784851]
Hey...it's a legitimate question.[/quote]Oh I know .....

Maybe this is on another thread, but has anyone found an "electronic" high idler (like FOMOCO's AIC) for a 3rd gen CTD? All the one's I've found online seem to be for 2nd gen trucks and earlier. I don't mind my throttle stick, but wouldn't mind pushing a button or turning a little knob to manually control idle speed (vice the whole other discussion about cold weather enable provided by the ECM). Plus, that stick would get in the way of my feet if I'm eating lunch in the truck with the engine idling.

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=bulabula link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171938 date=1060785147]Plus, that stick would get in the way of my feet if I'm eating lunch in the truck with the engine idling.
[/quote]

No...not really. I haven't once kicked mine and knocked it off the pedal. Personally, I can't justify to myself (much less my wife) to spend $200 on a high idler when my high idle stick works just as well...and could easily be made to work at multiple RPM levels if one were so inclined to get a little creative.

BUT....the thread below has a few listed that will work on the 03's...

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...threadid=17999

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=Hoss link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171951 date=1060787238]
[quote author=bulabula link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171938 date=1060785147]Plus, that stick would get in the way of my feet if I'm eating lunch in the truck with the engine idling.
[/quote]

No...not really. I haven't once kicked mine and knocked it off the pedal. Personally, I can't justify to myself (much less my wife) to spend $200 on a high idler when my high idle stick works just as well...and could easily be made to work at multiple RPM levels if one were so inclined to get a little creative.

BUT....the thread below has a few listed that will work on the 03's...

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...threadid=17999[/quote]Hoss, ok, show me.

The few websites that I found (2 of them) the usdiesel.com and the psddielparts.com page listed units for 24V engines up to 2001; unless I missed something. The good news: I've got a 2003 and a couple hundred.

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=bulabula link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171905 date=1060779302]
[quote author=Doug link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=15#msg171705 date=1060729677]
cummins/DC will recommend against it, and will use this data from the ECM if you get into a warranty dispute.[/quote]Doug, is this hearsay? Or is this documented somewhere?

Hoss, look what you started ............. [laugh]
[/quote]

I'm talking about the owners manual and the general recommendations against prolonged idle. Using the ECM data is my own opinion -- if a warranty dispute arose I just think that would be one thing they would throw around.

No, I don't know of any statements or historical facts promising or showing DC/cummins actions.

These recommendations are formalized by the mfg to cover their butts. As Mr. Kennedy has well pointed out, these engines are pretty robust and can tolerate a lot more than the "cover your butt" recommendations targeted at those who don't know the first thing about diesels.

All I'm saying is that if you know you have to be in an extended idle situation, you should minimize your risk (frequent oil changes, analysis, pre-heat, etc) and be prepared for a dispute is your engine brakes for some other unrelated issue...

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=bulabula link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171998 date=1060792757]Hoss, ok, show me.

The few websites that I found (2 of them) the usdiesel.com and the psddielparts.com page listed units for 24V engines up to 2001; unless I missed something. The good news: I've got a 2003 and a couple hundred.

[/quote]

Show you what?? Read through that link I provided. I think on the 2nd or 3rd page there is a guy there that gives information for another gentleman that sells high idlers for even the 2003's....

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=Doug link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg172038 date=1060798666]I'm talking about the owners manual and the general recommendations against prolonged idle. Using the ECM data is my own opinion -- if a warranty dispute arose I just think that would be one thing they would throw around.[/quote]

Still...is it technically considered IDLING if you're sitting at 1200 RPM's?? What does the ECM consider idling to be?? Is that any RPM as long as the truck isn't moving....or is that 800 RPM's??

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=bulabula link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171938 date=1060785147]
[quote author=Hoss link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg171935 date=1060784851]
Hey...it's a legitimate question.[/quote]Oh I know .....

Maybe this is on another thread, but has anyone found an "electronic" high idler (like FOMOCO's AIC) for a 3rd gen CTD? All the one's I've found online seem to be for 2nd gen trucks and earlier. I don't mind my throttle stick, but wouldn't mind pushing a button or turning a little knob to manually control idle speed (vice the whole other discussion about cold weather enable provided by the ECM). Plus, that stick would get in the way of my feet if I'm eating lunch in the truck with the engine idling.
[/quote]


FWIW - I found an adjustable idle stick @ a Pilot Truckstop for $6. You can set it @ any RPM you want. Clips under the dash ..... never gets in the way of my foot.

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

[quote author=P Kennedy link=board=20;threadid=18143;start=30#msg172189 date=1060820353]
Ok Hoss I am at a loss as I have told you all my worldly secrets to idle a diesel with minimum possible damage and what we encountered by doing it for what ever reason. The records show that Northern high idle time engines get as many miles as engines in warmer climates that are not left running. Please get to your point and if there is something you know please share. If you want a personal guarrantee from those that do it there will be no mechanical misfunction in your diesel I am betting your fishing in the wrong hole. If people are too cheap to spend $60-75 dollars on a manual throttle for a $15-40,000 truck there will be no right answers for them here. On this topic we have in my opinion passed over the proverbial bridge of logic and experience to possible confrontation, why YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. PK
[/quote]

What's your deal, partner?? Lighten up. If you don't want to participate in this thread any more then don't. ::) Now...to address your comments...

I didn't start this thread to make a point. I started this thread to ask a question. Maybe you should go back to the first post and read it again. I'm fairly new to diesels. I like to idle my truck at 1200 RPM's during the summer so I can have A/C while I'm sitting in my truck eating lunch (or anything else I may be sitting in my truck for). I plan to idle it at the same during the winter for the heater. I'm simply asking how long an engine can idle at 1200 RPM's without doing damage. That's all. Simple as that.

I'm not looking for...nor do I expect...a personal guarantee from anyone here. I'm just gathering information for my own personal use. Obviously others find it interesting too or this thread would have died out two pages ago.

If, by "people", you mean ME...then you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Right now I can't justify spending big bucks on a high idler when I can go out in my garage and cut a 1x2 to an appropriate length and get the EXACT same result. BUT, this thread has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with anyone being cheap. Nothing at all. ::) AND...I've found PLENTY of right answers here....none of which had anything to do with whether I'm cheap or not (which you have no way of knowing).

It never became confrontational until your last post...which was totally uncalled for. If you're tired of this topic...quit reading and responding to it.

See there....you went off and made me get all snippy. Why'd you have to do that? ::)

Now...back on topic. ;D

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

Hoss, you pms'ing or something?

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

Not at all...I just didn't like what he was implying. :) ;)

Re:How Long Can The Engine Idle??
 

So did you ever hear back from Cummins? I'm curious because what I do it just turn on my exhaust brake. I can see my EGT's go immediately up to about 450-500 deg, and if I run the AC or the compressor, I can get another 50 deg out of it, so I think I'm okay but not sure. I'm curious what Cummins says about idling at 1200-1500 for extended periods.