dieselnewbie

Where's the love?

I didn't call you dumb or pigheaded or hurl any other insults.

I don't think you're dumb, I just think you're wrong. No need for insults.

I just said that based on everything I've learned over the last 3 years, I don't believe that idling for extended periods does any harm.

And like I said, I don't care who told you that idling caused that damage, there's no way anyone could know that for certain why that happened. No way.

Don't believe everything you hear or read.

DT.

VADERPOWER

guys, arguing with people that have less brain matter than u lower yourself to there level, and they have the advantage down there idling the auto in park for long periods fries it period, if u dont think so try it and see, nuff said. late

annabelle

I don't really care what they do. I idle mine in N, set the E brake, and enable the high idle. And where do you see any personal attacks in my comments? As I said, do as you wish "ignorance is bliss" they say.

monnshyne

Hmm have any of you looked at those pictures and noticed that the pump in question looks to have been run WITHOUT fluid. At no time is the pump ever cut off from fluid while in park or neutral. The only thing I can agree on is that running a trans dry would surely make a pump do just like that one. Now if only idling one 8 hours would do this then Dodge would have a whole lot of tee'd off owners. Do you know how many trucks are used to haul freight? Know how many drivers idle these things all weekend? I'd say far more than just a few thousand are sold every year to be used in Hotshots and other commercial apps. How long would that take to stack up at the dealers across the nation? What you see is your buds 1 pump that went south by the looks of it of running without enough oil or a host of other reasons. So he got himself a bad one. I know of people whom normally idle for days at a times with 48RE's with trucks as old as 05 to 08's none have dropped on him yet. Most of his trucks like mine get no less than 100k a year on them. First Dodge I had I put 87k on it 6 1/2 months. When you’re on the road you live in these trucks and you will idle them at times for far longer then 8 hours. Gear pumps die from lack of oil in park not heat because if they made enough heat in park to kill them they all would do just like your buds. I tell you what will get these 48RE's is the extra torque from up loaders and overweight hauling. These were designed for GAS engines with far less torque. They were adapted / upgraded for Diesel use several times over the years. I must say I lunched my trans a few times in my personal truck. Reason is my chip for one dragging far to much weight for its designed use IE crossing the scales a few times in excess of 34000 LBS for over 1000 miles. If you do one like that and yes a stock Trans WON'T last long. Idling one for most people is nothing 30 mins maybe. Your pump runs as long as the engine is running. As far as it getting services just prior to it dieing, hey I'd take a look at what they did. Wrong oil maybe maybe not but something die on me right after I have it serviced and you bet I get an oil sample. What you have shown is a blown front main seal that surely would drain the oil from the transmission while he was at an idle and lunch that pump. Sorry for your buds loss but that’s not idling damage at all, just a pump run dry from what I see. In fact I idled one for 5 days and never lost the pump and it had the front shaft twisted off and all manor of metal floating in the oil. Oh and remember your pump is engaged by your torque converter not the input shaft so yes it was running the whole time with all kinds of crap in the oil. So if idling one will take out the pump in 8 hours you'd think I'd had lunched it idling it for I'd say 115 total hours at that one stop.

Mark

annabelle

Why can't you understand that the fluid does not circulate in P period, unless you have a modded VB It's a fact. Ask your tranny man.

LovinTheTorque

Hey Guys,

All I can give as far as input is from my own experience. I am a former Hot shot owner. I only have one truck left which is my personal truck. I have 267,562 miles and hae idle continually for 6 hours plus at a time to keep warm. Now is it good for it probably would I do it again yes. My truck runs as good as it did new actually @ 22,000 miles when I got it. Now that is my experience I am sure there are several who agree and several who don't and that is fine. So I am still driving it daily with no problems having fun playing.
I hope I don't start any flames just stating my experience.

Thanks Guys,

Scott

jrussell

Seems like a slight contradiction there.

dieselnewbie

Now there's some worth while advice you can pass on to the unfortunate owner of that transmission.

Listen to Mark.

DT.

THURENfab.

Interesting thank you! Did not see the pressure charts before..

StrokeThisCTD

What ive gained from this thread is that the original poster wanted to know if he could idle his truck, which let it be known is a SIX SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION, and everyone here is having a huge argument/discussion/debate whatever you call it, over fluid flowing in park. There are people whos brothers friends uncles dad owns a tranny shop and says this, there are people whos sisters boyfriends dad owns a different tranny shop and says something else.

Cummins says anything below 1000 RPM is idling. Do the necessary mods to get it to high idle at 1100 RPM and let the truck sit. i let my 04.5 sit for hours at a time at 1100 RPM and i had no problems, but thats my own personal experience, and thats what ill stick to. I wont let anyone else tell me different. The guys who MAKE the engine say 1100 RPM is not idling, so as far as im concerned you arent idling, you are driving if you let it sit overnight at 1100 RPM.

no_6_oh_no

Really! How do you suppose that happened? Maybe due to the fact the pump does NOT draw fluid in park? Run a gear pump in less than a pint of fluid at high temps for a couple hours and see what happens. Take a VB apart and test the flow patterns, fluid draw is blocked in park unless modifications are made.


Why don't you call Bill Kondalay and give him advice on building transmissions and explain to him how fluid flows just fine in park. I would pay money to listen in on THAT conversation. Good comic relief is hard to come by. Have either of you EVER stopped to consider how most of us know your dead wrong?


FYI, multiple people with autos have asked this question thru the thread, read the posts. Aside from more incorrect info, what have you contributed? Better check your info on how Cummins rates these engines as it has a few gaps.

Bottom line, idling even with high idle is detrimental to the engine life. Thats not just my opinion, it has some very quantifiable results. Idling an auto in park with an unmodified VB is detrimental to transmission life. Not just my opinion, quanifiable results are available.

Its your truck do as you please, but, ******* people for trying to clear up misconceptions is not acceptable. I urge all of you to pick a major recognized transmission authority and spend a little time on the phone with them. If the info posted here doesn't convince, follow it up with some research. Same with the engine idling.

StrokeThisCTD

The original poster asked about idling his truck with a six speed manual transmission. What he has now is 7 pages of people talking about fluid flowing in an automatic transmission. Thats just what he wanted

Sorry, all i contributed was a phone call to cummins to ask them what idling is, and Cummins said idling is below 1000 RPM. I apologize for going straight to the manufacturer to get an answer. Disagree with me all you want, i called the manufacturer. I also know in my own head that there are people that never turn their Cummins trucks off, and if they do its for short times.

I did not dog people clearing up misconceptions. I simply said that there is a 7 page topic here arguing about something that the original poster does not even have. Its his topic and it turned off topic very quickly. It went from asking if he can idle his truck, to saying that it is bad for the motor, to it being bad for an automatic transmission to idle in park. If there is going to be an argument about idling an automatic transmission, make a topic for it instead of messing with this guys topic

ado2b1

Wow, that was quite an interesting read (and a good way to pass the time at the end of the day). I'm rather suprised at all the drama on the forum, though still not anywhere as bad as a group of guys and gals I ride bikes with.

Bottom line, I'm just going keep idling in drive with the parking brake on like I have for the last year...

just kidding, just kidding, I live in the temperate midwest and fortunately don't have to burn fuel to keep my truck warm or cold.

Thread jacking time, anyone watch that ice road truckers show, those are some badass trucks.

monnshyne

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_6_oh_no

Really! How do you suppose that happened? Maybe due to the fact the pump does NOT draw fluid in park? Run a gear pump in less than a pint of fluid at high temps for a couple hours and see what happens. Take a VB apart and test the flow patterns, fluid draw is blocked in park unless modifications are made.

Did you think about what you just said before you wrote it?

Yes it does draw fluid out of the sump while in park. It draws fluid out of the sump in park, neutral, 1st 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. One look at the fluid diagram shows that. Fluid is never cut off from the pump. How can you cut the fluid off from the pump when it has a direct draw off the sump? It would take a few mins to lockup a pump if you ran it dry and Dodge isn't going to design one that does that. The pump in fact does pump from the time you crank your engine up until the time you shut it off. It's driven off your TC.

Oh yes about that couple of hours thing you said something about. I do. In fact if you've read my posts I have idled them for days on end and never lost a pump or a tranny due to idling and FYI I have never had the high idle setup on either of my trucks. I speak from running these trucks daily commercially so I put allot more abuse on these transmissions than a normal driver like yourself would ever do to one.

Look at your in Park fluid diagram.
Pump 10-20 PSI < So where is the pump getting the fluid? Why the sump of course.
Excess fluid off the regulator is then sent back to the CCSV. Then it is routed back.
1. The TC
2. Front clutch lube
3. Dead ended at the CCT

Now I never said there was pressure because it clearly states there is not. But it states it has flow none the less. IE enough to lube it but not under pressure. Now following the flow diagram out of the TC it goes back into the CCSV then routed back to the COOLER. Imagine that. Now I'm only telling you what it clearly SHOWS you in the SERVICE MANUAL. If anything in the second drum is turning then my statement about bearing wear would be true because there is no lube there in park. When I made that statement I thought that no drum was lubed in park but I was wrong about that I see now. However nothing in the second drum should be turning in park in the first place.

Mark

P. S.
As Hommer would say.
DoH

annabelle

Fluid is not circulated in P period (with a stock VB.) Do as you wish. Good luck.