WSA308

You telling me that the emissions requirements are the same in California as they are in Inuvik?

How many long haul highway tractors have you seen with a cat?

Luke S, I don't know about your dealership, but here is one for ya, DC replaced six injectors in my 04.5 thinking that the injectors were bypassing as a result of injector damage due to contamination (approx cost $5500.00), I told them I thought it was kind of funny that 5 out of six went bad..they all use the same fuel don't they? Also I suggested at the time that they look at the injection pump as the injectors will not open when there is not enough pressure them. They changed the injectors but, it turns out it was the injection pump. Now I have new injectors and a new injector pump...I'm not complaining but thats alot of cash to throw out ...so I see your point.

Since when can a dealer void you warranty purely on speculation? (innocent until proven guilty - not in DC's world).

Anything pushed beyond its design limits will break...the engineers have some bridge that reminds tem of this....I agree if you took out the component due to pooven abuse, you should be responsible for the cost of the item. An example is the transmission I took out, I replaced the weak stocker with a new performance transmission on my own dime? You play you pay.

TAS05CTD610

How many long haul highway tractors have you seen with a cat?



You haven't, yet. I do believe 07/08 is the year that that will change. Good time are a coming.

I left my cat in, dosn't slow the flow down that much. We have huge scrubbers on our Cat diesels here at work as gen sets (2500hp each) they don't seem to mind the added back pressure. And to think a 12 inch exhaust flows from 4 turbos the size of our engines?? It's cool. But emisions will come to everything. It's not so much the cool factor, but we will kill mother nature, and then she will turn on us. I have a TST, haven't gone over 2 with it, and I used that on torque to pull one of the big trailers. No black smoke, no this, usalbe power. (yes I find it funny to have 1,000 foot lbs of torque and never tow) hey, everybody has a hibbie. Kind alike how nascar still uses leaded fuel, nobody else is)

Me, i'm a happy camper either way

03 ant a hemi

Reguardless of what people say on here about a dealership cannot void your warrenty, they will recommend it to DC, whom will void the warrenty. Have fun fighting them in court over a EMMISIONS law for an OEM spec vehicle.
I doubt most of the people on here spouting off about different laws and which States enforce them and what not really have much of a clue as to what they are really talking about.
There is a Federal law (protect the manufacture) which states that modifying a vehicle from it's orignal intended purpose for the reason of noise, emmisions, rides heights and so on shall effect the vehicle and all liabiltys with it. It states that the manufacture shall not be held liable for such modifications from OEM specs in reguards to the above mentioned. Modification of a vehicles emmision requirements may result in severe fines if found to be in contravention of OEM spec's. not exact wording and so forth but close enough.
From State to State, Province to Province they all have their own laws which they allow certain things to be bypassed. such as muffler removel, emmisions control and testing, ride heights, type of fuel usage, tire types etc. This does not mean that you can remove any device installed on your vehicle for the reason of emmisions, noise surpression etc and expect that a dealership whom is following OEM specs to full fill their end of the deal in reguards to warrenty work.
The reality of it is, a person listened to fellow forum members on removing a device that has resulted in warrenty work being denied. On advice from some of you and maybe others from different sites.
Who is going to anty up to help him in this situation. Any takers.... I thought not..

We all enjoy the thought that we can do what ever we want and when ever we want to our trucks in the name of performance and looks. Which would be nice. The reality of it is, the second that you modify any component of your vehicle outside of OEM specs you have now opened the door for warrenty denials. Ask them to prove the part removed or added caused the failure, well they can ask you to prove it the other way also. Not to mention they have federal law on their side in reguards to design specs and so forth.

Safety aspects with ride heights, emmissions with add on chips or removal of system components, tinting of windows, brake modifications, added fog lights/driving lights, adding of modified injectors, fuel pumps. All examples (which could go on for ever) of easy modifications that seem innocent enough untill a fault occurs with the vechicle. But are very costly if not covered under warrenty due to modification of the vehicle.

What I would like to see on these sites is more focus from the dealers and manufactures with dealing with the present laws in reguards to emmisions, vehicle heights and so on, with the truth being forwarded. Not the misconceptions that all to often come up. Untill we can tell the truth about what can, will or may void warrenty from one side of the Continent to the other, we need to be very carefull what we say or do.
I have noticed that some companys advertise that their product is 50 state legal in bold letters, in fine small print "for off road use only". Yet most will agree it is legal.

I live up here in the Great White North. Ehh,, when I lived in BC I was asked what rating and tire size I had on my truck. I said factory. I was asked to confirm this for insurance reasons, original tires were 245 70 17 E rating, I had on 265 70 17 E rated. (I think those are correct #'s) I moved up a tire size. They had to find out from the dealership if the tires I had on were OEM spec'd to to handle the weight requirment of the truck. To which the answer was yes they were also factory tires. I never thought that changing a tire size woudl effect warrenty and such. The biggest thing was the E rating for the tire.
In Ontario they said it didnt matter, untill I dug deeper into the situation, to which the reply was you can use any tire type you want that is rated for truck use. But if an accident occurs due to non OEM conforming tires, (E rating) then I would be liable for any and all damages.
The same story in Alberta as in Ontario.
I have stuck with factory tires myself, I have seen most around here running C rated tires at max weight. I have also seen a few of these trucks in accidents, all insurance denied. Do to outside of OEM spec.

Enough ranting.
Good luck.

BRayls

I see nothing about Cali campared to any states or Inuvik in my posts .

underwoodtransp

If you are referring to my reply. You read correctly, $6000.00 because it is not just gaskets. When they go they take other things with them, like heads, and an egr cooler, and lets not forget when the motor is hydrolocked that if the dealer tries to start it that the nose cone will crack off.

jrogers

I just took our 2005 to Tuttle Click in CA with no CAT or muffler on it, with an oil leak....they said no problem.....if your in the southern california area Tuttle Click in Irvine is very MOD freindly

D.Wiggs

As many people have said, a dealer cannot just blanketly void an entire warranty. With that said, however, the will TRY to do so. A dealer may tell you that your warranty is void or that a portion of it is; however, the legal truth of the matter is that the dealer must honor the warranty no matter what modifications have been done EXCEPT in the specific case(s) when the modification can ben PROVEN to have been the DIRECT cause of the malfunction. Given that this is VERY difficult in most cases, and impossible in others, there are very few instances in which a dealer can actually void a warranty (or have DC do it for that matter). You do, however, have to stand up for yourself because the dealer is often motivated financially to sucker you into paying out of pocket for it. Do NOT fall for this. Explain the situation to them. The burden of proof lies with them to prove that your mod caused the problem, not with you to prove that it didn't.

I hope this clears up any and all confusion and helps fellow owners out with "less-than-cooperative" dealers!

blord

You really don't have a clue as to how the business world works or dealing with a very large corporation. All they have to do is have one of their several thousand automotive engineers say it caused the problem. That is all the proof they need in a court of law. Now if you want to go hire your own experts and lawyers with the associated costs then you can fight it. BTW, they have several hundred attorneys either on their direct staff or on retainer. They get paid whether they are in court or not so that doesn't cost them a thing.

To give you an idea of the size of Chrysler (I've been there multiple times on business), at one time I believe it was the largest non-government office building in the world. This is NOT a production facility but just their corporate headquarters and engineering. I worked for HP and was looking for our semi rig (full blown 18 wheeler) and I couldn't find it. I drove around the building several times. Turns out, they have an internal bay inside the building that has 18 loading docks for semis.

You want to play with the big boys in this arena you better have your s**t togther because I guarantee you that they will and DO. The armchair lawyers you find on these forums ain't gonna hack it.

The intent of the act everyone keeps quoting was to keep dealers from making you purchase shocks, tires, filters etc from them because of the fear of losing your warranty. It was NOT intended to allow you to modify the specificiations of a vehicle. The warranty from Dodge is based on a product that was designed within certain parameters, as it was sold originally, and the specifications that were published on that vehicle. It does not allow you to add a 150HP chip so you can blow smoke and then expect the manufacturer to fix it when it breaks.

My not so humble opinion

Luke S

Better put your flame suit on.

WSA308

My point is that all the automotive manufacturers build to suit the needs of their largest market.....California.....So someone in Inuvik gets the same vehicle with emissions control system designed to meet the needs of california. However, the vehicle (with the cat removed) meets the emissions requirements of Inuvik.....therefore, the legality of cat removal becomes a moot point.

LanceK

And what happens when the Svc. Mgr. is no longer there?

Bottom line if you change ANYTHING just consider the warranty void.

They're really cracking down on this stuff.

Luke S

They sure are. They give us dealers so much trouble and I can understand why. They pay for a lot of stuff they shouldn't have to in my opinion. If the average customer knew what scrutiny we as dealers are under from the manufacturer they maybe would see thinks differently. After all if the manufacturer decides they are not going to pay a claim, who gets to pay it then? The dealer. And I bet most customers out there would have no problem with us coming back and charging them for it? Ya right!

topless

If you modify a new vehicle, you take the chance that your warranty will be voided. It's just that simple. Even without any mods, they will look really hard to see if there is a way to get out of paying for a fix.
It's business and dollars. The dealer is the one that will blow the whistle on your mods. They can present the parts with or without mentioning the mods. Unless the factory rep is standing there when the work is done.
There are limits on what can be voided. Example: You put bigger than stock tires on and the radio quits. They can't say it was because of the tires. But, if a wheel bearing craps out, you will probably have to pay for it.

D.Wiggs

I will let the personal attack as to my cluelessness slide given that you obviously know nothing about me, who I know, or what I do. I will give you this much insight, however; I bought my Lamborghini with cash; I bought my house with cash; I buy everything with cash. How, you ask? I am VERY, VERY, VERY, good at what I do. When you have two very successful lawyers and business owners as parents, and then become one yourself, you look forward to the pathetic challenges that a corp. like DC tries to issue. The bottom line is as I said before, THE PROOF LIES WITH THE COMPANY, NOT WITH THE OWNER. As I said, I will let this attack slide, for you made an egregious error in judgment, but do not EVER bring up anything personal again and all will be fine. This forum is NOT the place for such rhetoric.

Having an engineer say that something is the cause is not evidence, it is conjecture and speculation. An engineer could SAY that the sky collapsed momentarily and, in doing so, caused a defect in the wiring harness to my radio. That does not MAKE it the case. In fact, it does not even give you good reason for thinking that it is the case. If you really wanted to pursue the issue with the company and did go to court, in MOST cases it would be very easy to win for arbitors and juries do NOT like large corperations trying to "screw" individuals. In addition, THEY would have the burden of proof, not you.

Those are the FACTS. Let's not make this into a personal argument where emotion overtakes rational thought.

GET BACK ON TOPIC!!

bekim

[QUOTE=The dealer can and will void warranty on your whole vehicle for trivial things
[/QUOTE]

Why even say something like this?
Mike