Dealer wants to void warranty because i removed cat??
04-29-2006, 03:11 PM
#31
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Given the state of air pollution laws growing tougher every year I would think twice about getting rid of my Cat if I had one. The fines if DOT pulled you over and you had taken it off would be more than a speeding ticket for sure plus a new Cat is more $. I have an 03 with no cat and I feel for ya. There are other ways to get that air flow to be better without taking the chance. ks
04-29-2006, 07:13 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by joel
In a word, yes.
Really, they should only void those things which that affects like the emissions warranty, but I suppose they could make a case that you changed the back pressure characteristics of the whole exhaust flow and that might harm the engine. And let you prove that's not the case.
All the while answering to the Feds why you violated federal law by removing a mandatory piece of emissions equipment.
I'm not even sure they're allowed to work on the vehicle if EPA mandated equipment has been tampered with or removed.
Really, they should only void those things which that affects like the emissions warranty, but I suppose they could make a case that you changed the back pressure characteristics of the whole exhaust flow and that might harm the engine. And let you prove that's not the case.
All the while answering to the Feds why you violated federal law by removing a mandatory piece of emissions equipment.
I'm not even sure they're allowed to work on the vehicle if EPA mandated equipment has been tampered with or removed.
04-30-2006, 04:56 PM
#33
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Warranties and hug'n trees.
Originally Posted by BRayls
changing the emmisions in any way can be in violation of the law. in other words a tuner is just as bad ,as far as breaking the law.
1. I think the Magnusson-Moss Act has been a great help in preventing the big 3 from taking even further advantage of the consumer.
2. Removing a cat from your truck will not void the warranty on that unit, although you may be breaking some state laws and a particular dealer may refuse to work on an unlawful unit, the cat will not affect the service life of the powertrain. If warranty is to be declined, the dealer must proove that the issue was a result of removing the cat.
3. A plugged cat significantly reduces the performance and efficiency of the diesel engine. Unless you are really working your rig to get the temps up, the cat will plug and you will be required to replace it inorder to restore the efficiency of the engine.
I too believe that we need to do what we can to protect our environment, but I think that 90% of the focus is too often on what causes 10% of the problem. There are many things that contribute to green house gas emissions and there is only one reason why George Bush has yet to sign the Keyoto Accord. It makes you feel warm and fuzzy that they are implementing measures to reduce consumer contributions to GHG meanwhile big business is allowed to carry on business as usual without any major changes to reduce emissions.
So in the big picture, is removing the cat on the odd tuner vehicle a big issue????
Oh yeah, my cat ran away and never came back.
04-30-2006, 07:57 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by WSA308
This quite the interresting post, with very diverse opinions and I just thought I would chime in...again...to comment on some of the replies.
1. I think the Magnusson-Moss Act has been a great help in preventing the big 3 from taking even further advantage of the consumer.
2. Removing a cat from your truck will not void the warranty on that unit, although you may be breaking some state laws and a particular dealer may refuse to work on an unlawful unit, the cat will not affect the service life of the powertrain. If warranty is to be declined, the dealer must proove that the issue was a result of removing the cat.
3. A plugged cat significantly reduces the performance and efficiency of the diesel engine. Unless you are really working your rig to get the temps up, the cat will plug and you will be required to replace it inorder to restore the efficiency of the engine.
I too believe that we need to do what we can to protect our environment, but I think that 90% of the focus is too often on what causes 10% of the problem. There are many things that contribute to green house gas emissions and there is only one reason why George Bush has yet to sign the Keyoto Accord. It makes you feel warm and fuzzy that they are implementing measures to reduce consumer contributions to GHG meanwhile big business is allowed to carry on business as usual without any major changes to reduce emissions.
So in the big picture, is removing the cat on the odd tuner vehicle a big issue???? Oh yeah, my cat ran away and never came back.
1. I think the Magnusson-Moss Act has been a great help in preventing the big 3 from taking even further advantage of the consumer.
2. Removing a cat from your truck will not void the warranty on that unit, although you may be breaking some state laws and a particular dealer may refuse to work on an unlawful unit, the cat will not affect the service life of the powertrain. If warranty is to be declined, the dealer must proove that the issue was a result of removing the cat.
3. A plugged cat significantly reduces the performance and efficiency of the diesel engine. Unless you are really working your rig to get the temps up, the cat will plug and you will be required to replace it inorder to restore the efficiency of the engine.
I too believe that we need to do what we can to protect our environment, but I think that 90% of the focus is too often on what causes 10% of the problem. There are many things that contribute to green house gas emissions and there is only one reason why George Bush has yet to sign the Keyoto Accord. It makes you feel warm and fuzzy that they are implementing measures to reduce consumer contributions to GHG meanwhile big business is allowed to carry on business as usual without any major changes to reduce emissions.
So in the big picture, is removing the cat on the odd tuner vehicle a big issue????
Oh yeah, my cat ran away and never came back.
05-01-2006, 02:56 PM
#35
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Man all this voided warranty work talk is scaring me. How bad is DC on voiding warranties? I have done no mods to my truck and I am afraid to.
I have heard radio talk broadcasts about DC blaming contaiminated fuel for bad injectors when the lift pump dies. Even when an independent research lab says "fuel not contaminated" DC stands by the voided warranty. DO these trucks have that many warranty issues?
I have heard radio talk broadcasts about DC blaming contaiminated fuel for bad injectors when the lift pump dies. Even when an independent research lab says "fuel not contaminated" DC stands by the voided warranty. DO these trucks have that many warranty issues?
05-02-2006, 02:44 PM
#36
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I offer you good luck in getting your warranty work done, as I hate the dealer too as most of them will not pay even when they dang well should. We both know that the cat did nothing to cause this issue.
I am however amazed that anyone would have the rocks to try and fight this with the dealer, as I’m sure he would be too should you choose to fight it. It does not seem to me that you are in a position to escalate this with lawyers etc (as of now) since you are in violation of the law.
The cat test pipe all the dealers sell here and elsewhere is for off highway use only. In an effort to hobble your attempts to win this venture, I would not be surprised if the dealer would threaten to or go through with contacting the proper authorities to investigate how the cat fell off in the first place. What is the fine for taking off Federal mandated equipment anyway? Could you do jail time for this?
Good luck.
I am however amazed that anyone would have the rocks to try and fight this with the dealer, as I’m sure he would be too should you choose to fight it. It does not seem to me that you are in a position to escalate this with lawyers etc (as of now) since you are in violation of the law.
The cat test pipe all the dealers sell here and elsewhere is for off highway use only. In an effort to hobble your attempts to win this venture, I would not be surprised if the dealer would threaten to or go through with contacting the proper authorities to investigate how the cat fell off in the first place. What is the fine for taking off Federal mandated equipment anyway? Could you do jail time for this?
Good luck.
05-02-2006, 03:48 PM
#37
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doing a search will reveal that federal law does state removing emissions equipment is in violation of the law. changing the emissions in any way is in violation of the law. the motorcycle industry is fighting this big time, as changing the exhaust violates the law, by changing the emissions the bike puts out.
05-02-2006, 04:47 PM
#38
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Ok lets say the cat is their because it legaly needs to be. Isn't it the goal of the emisions system to be below a certain polution leval,to be legal. So you remove the cat your emisions get worse. But can't you add Soy Diesel to make the emissions go back down below legal levals???? So wouldn't removing the cat be considered legal. Because after all isn't it what comes out of the tail pipe what matters most.
Couple more points ask the dealer when you make the appointment weather they automaticly void warranty on modded trucks. I asked 1 said yes 1 said no, guess which one I go to
$6000 head gaskets???
please tell me it is $600
Couple more points ask the dealer when you make the appointment weather they automaticly void warranty on modded trucks. I asked 1 said yes 1 said no, guess which one I go to
$6000 head gaskets???
please tell me it is $600
05-02-2006, 05:41 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by staarma
Why would adding a pipe to a bike change the emissions? The worst that could happen is the CO (bad) would go down or lean the mixture out and the Hydrocarbons would go up as a result which makes for a not so good running bike. The main gas that emissions is worried about is NOX and CO.
If they are going the route of db increase then they would have a valid argument.
If they are going the route of db increase then they would have a valid argument.
Reading through your list of mods, only one thing stands out as warranty friendly, the tires.
05-03-2006, 10:52 AM
#41
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Removing a CAT is illegal. No matter how you guys try to explain it your selfs.
Paying the fine would be much more expensive then the repairs to your truck.
If one of my guys changes the parameters in an ECM , say to boost the power, it is $10,000 a day to him and $10,000 a day to me for every day it has been like that. So do you think I will mess around with modded emission system trucks?
Paying the fine would be much more expensive then the repairs to your truck.
If one of my guys changes the parameters in an ECM , say to boost the power, it is $10,000 a day to him and $10,000 a day to me for every day it has been like that. So do you think I will mess around with modded emission system trucks?
05-03-2006, 04:03 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by abc4yew
Given the state of air pollution laws growing tougher every year I would think twice about getting rid of my Cat if I had one. The fines if DOT pulled you over and you had taken it off would be more than a speeding ticket for sure plus a new Cat is more $. I have an 03 with no cat and I feel for ya. There are other ways to get that air flow to be better without taking the chance. ks
The DOT doesn’t have anything to do with your CAT being removed.
They are state ran and control vehicle safety items not emissions.
DOT= State
Removing the CAT is a Federal violation.
How many Federal inspectors have you seen on the roads?
Not saying go ahead and remove your CAT just pointing out the DOT is funded by the state and gains nothing from looking for a federal violation on your truck.
But it does give the dealer some leverage on mods.
Dan
05-09-2006, 05:46 PM
#43
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If you guys would leave these cotton pickin trucks alone we would not have these problems! We are very lax on warranty work on modded trucks, probably more than we should be. If I went back and added up all the warranty claims I've seen DC pay that shouldn't have been during my career in the car business I could retire off of the figure. No joke. We have let a lot of stuff slide for a lot of years at our dealership, but I am truly starting to be upset by all this stuff. If I get one more guy coming in with a big honkin crude chip that doesn't even pull or even own a trailer I think myhead may explode. The more power the trucks make from the factory the more people want to crank them up. Enough all ready. Take a look at the pics of the trucks and loads in my gallery, not one of our trucks is modded, all stock, and I have no problem running the speed limit or more, and I'd say I pull heavier than 99% of those out there.
05-09-2006, 06:27 PM
#44
Well add one more to the club whom listened to the group "ahh they cannot void your warrenty". Note the sarcasm there
The law stipulates that any tampering with vehicle emmision will void your truck warrenty. If that includes powertrain and bumper to bumper I am not sure about. But the engine warrenty is kissed good bye.
The same as adding a tuner,chip, different injector pump etc, all these items change the emmisions that the truck was originally designed to put out. The dealership is legally abided to report such instances and refuse work to be done. As stated before an exhaust shop must not remove a emmisions device either. If you bring the truck in with out the device they have to refuse work unless you reinstall one.
The tampering with emmisions devices and the operating parameters of your truck although fun to do and may result in personalle benifits, will most likely result in warrenty being voided and or refusal of work to be done.... That is it, the more we get into warrenty and emmisions work the more strict dealerships will have to get on modded trucks.
BEWARE, the guys on the FORUMS whom sight the Mogmassum act and or the dealership has to provide proof are only correct to a certain point. If you tamper with original vehicle specs then you have no leg to stand on.
Good luck, talk to your distrect rep and ask if you reinstall the cat if they will honour the work.
The law stipulates that any tampering with vehicle emmision will void your truck warrenty. If that includes powertrain and bumper to bumper I am not sure about. But the engine warrenty is kissed good bye.
The same as adding a tuner,chip, different injector pump etc, all these items change the emmisions that the truck was originally designed to put out. The dealership is legally abided to report such instances and refuse work to be done. As stated before an exhaust shop must not remove a emmisions device either. If you bring the truck in with out the device they have to refuse work unless you reinstall one.
The tampering with emmisions devices and the operating parameters of your truck although fun to do and may result in personalle benifits, will most likely result in warrenty being voided and or refusal of work to be done.... That is it, the more we get into warrenty and emmisions work the more strict dealerships will have to get on modded trucks.
BEWARE, the guys on the FORUMS whom sight the Mogmassum act and or the dealership has to provide proof are only correct to a certain point. If you tamper with original vehicle specs then you have no leg to stand on.
Good luck, talk to your distrect rep and ask if you reinstall the cat if they will honour the work.
05-09-2006, 07:57 PM
#45
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Ive got a good dealer, and they haven't voided my warranty, even though they know it is straight piped, gauged, and the silencer ring has been removed. I fear however, that they might void the warranty if I put a box on it, so I will wait until Im out of warranty, before I put a box on it. You play, you gotta pay. Its to be expected from most, that if you tinker with your truck, you run the risk of the warranty being voided.
Scott
Scott