BullyDog downloader broke my ECM, 250 miles from home, and $1700 - options?
12-28-2005, 08:38 AM
#16
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I thought the ECM is pretty much useless once programmed to the vehicle for use in another. It may be able to be reset at the factory but this really cuts down on stolen ECM problems. I thought I saw not to buy ECMs on E-Bay. This may just be on certain automobile models but I am not sure.
12-28-2005, 08:44 AM
#17
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Marco is THE MAN!!
I'll have to find something cool to send him from SC.
I used a bottle of wine from Sardegna (sp?) to get some work done on a car once. Old Navy guy, flat out told me, ain't got time to work on my own junk, much less yours.
saw his recycling bin was FULL of wine bottles, him & wife talking about how much they enjoyed La Maddelena & Palau.
went home, found a bottle of local wine from Sardegna (a gift for some reason), headed right back, he was my buddy!
my dealer agreed to install it, and reflash as necessary.
I'll have to find something cool to send him from SC.
I used a bottle of wine from Sardegna (sp?) to get some work done on a car once. Old Navy guy, flat out told me, ain't got time to work on my own junk, much less yours.
saw his recycling bin was FULL of wine bottles, him & wife talking about how much they enjoyed La Maddelena & Palau.
went home, found a bottle of local wine from Sardegna (a gift for some reason), headed right back, he was my buddy!
my dealer agreed to install it, and reflash as necessary.
12-28-2005, 08:58 AM
#18
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When you reflash your ECM with the stock program on the BDDL are you reloading the stock program out of your ECM or just loading a Bully Dog version of the stock program?
12-28-2005, 09:00 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by 04ctd
they are causing all these problems.
12-28-2005, 09:58 AM
#20
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AK RAM, any failures when one is your own is always too many....The TST didn't blow up any turbos 
it was those with a lack of self control running 9x9 on a virtual twins program that blew up the turbo. Actually, TST testing on an SO and everyone using HO's and telling folks you could use your stock exhaust and intake shifted blame a little. 
Just razzin a bit.
NJ, according to what I have read here bully dog is reloading "a" stock program back in not "your" stock program. They may be able to pull some info out of the ECM before replacing parts of the program but it is very limited. Apparently they are replacing it with an Argentinian version of a reflash as NAmerica versions are probably harder to get a hold of. This reminds me so much of the grey market satelite signal reflashing. I would think DC would have major issues with Bully Dog or PPE selling downloaders with their SAmerican source code on it without getting paid. The source code on these ECM's must be copywritten, if it isn't then all the power to BD and PPE.
04, Once again good luck, although Christmas was a little less merry I hope you have a happier new year.
it was those with a lack of self control running 9x9 on a virtual twins program that blew up the turbo. Actually, TST testing on an SO and everyone using HO's and telling folks you could use your stock exhaust and intake shifted blame a little. Just razzin a bit.NJ, according to what I have read here bully dog is reloading "a" stock program back in not "your" stock program. They may be able to pull some info out of the ECM before replacing parts of the program but it is very limited. Apparently they are replacing it with an Argentinian version of a reflash as NAmerica versions are probably harder to get a hold of. This reminds me so much of the grey market satelite signal reflashing. I would think DC would have major issues with Bully Dog or PPE selling downloaders with their SAmerican source code on it without getting paid. The source code on these ECM's must be copywritten, if it isn't then all the power to BD and PPE.
04, Once again good luck, although Christmas was a little less merry I hope you have a happier new year.
12-28-2005, 11:00 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by AK RAM
I can only remember 4 horror stories like this. That is not a bad track record at all. Stuff happens.
stranding a family few hundred miles home - big deal to my wife on Christmas day.
Taking away a fellow's truck that he may use to make his living? - that's unacceptable. i don't make my living with mine, but i depend on it to get me to work so i can make the payment.
seems like a significant problem, more than just an annoyance, your ~$40k peice of equipment grinds to a halt, and most of your life and your plans for the next few weeks crash to a halt.
12-28-2005, 11:52 PM
#22
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I can understand your aggravation. It sucks having a vehicle go down, especially that far from home and on vacation to boot. With that said...
1) Personally I wouldn't do anything that had an effect on the ECM while I was on vacation.
2) If you're going to mod a vehicle you should be able to troubleshoot it also. I may have missed it but I don't recall any mention of the dealer attempting to reflash the ecm with the stock "Star" programming. If the tech did standard troubleshooting procedures them he told you what the book said. At the end of almost all troubleshooting procedures is the final step "replace ECM". Following standard procedures and not knowing any better he would have logically come to this final step every time. Had he thought outside the box he would have just re-flashed your ECM with stock programming and you'd have probably been on your way.
3) I did a lot of reading on here about the DL's because I was leery also. I found no other accounts of people having to buy ECM's. Re-flash yes, recover yes, replace no. It's really no different than your home computer locking up or crashing. Rarely is the computer "toast". You usually just have to re-load all of the programs or "re-boot" the system.
I hope you can recover some of your expense and E-bay or another member sounds like a good way to do it.
Yes, I understand your frustration. Yes, I've had a truck go down due to mods miles up in the mountains. Yes, I accept the risk and have a BALL driving this truck everyday.
jm.02
Richard
1) Personally I wouldn't do anything that had an effect on the ECM while I was on vacation.
2) If you're going to mod a vehicle you should be able to troubleshoot it also. I may have missed it but I don't recall any mention of the dealer attempting to reflash the ecm with the stock "Star" programming. If the tech did standard troubleshooting procedures them he told you what the book said. At the end of almost all troubleshooting procedures is the final step "replace ECM". Following standard procedures and not knowing any better he would have logically come to this final step every time. Had he thought outside the box he would have just re-flashed your ECM with stock programming and you'd have probably been on your way.
3) I did a lot of reading on here about the DL's because I was leery also. I found no other accounts of people having to buy ECM's. Re-flash yes, recover yes, replace no. It's really no different than your home computer locking up or crashing. Rarely is the computer "toast". You usually just have to re-load all of the programs or "re-boot" the system.
I hope you can recover some of your expense and E-bay or another member sounds like a good way to do it.
Yes, I understand your frustration. Yes, I've had a truck go down due to mods miles up in the mountains. Yes, I accept the risk and have a BALL driving this truck everyday.
jm.02
Richard
12-29-2005, 07:56 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Gypsyman
I can understand your aggravation. It sucks having a vehicle go down, especially that far from home and on vacation to boot. With that said...
1) Personally I wouldn't do anything that had an effect on the ECM
Richard
1) Personally I wouldn't do anything that had an effect on the ECM
Richard
12-29-2005, 06:59 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
Gypsy, all good points.
called and talked to the Tech.
He's all over it, he said my symptoms are "the ECM won't wake up" so it won't even talk, to let him erase it or blank it. it does some functions, like it will run fuel solenoid, but not much else.
so i do not think the BD Recovery Module will recover this ECM.
he told me he has been to all the schools, and talked about a lot of scenarios and situations that showed he has been thru the ECM drill before.
he said the "blank ECM" is a few hundred bucks, but the ECM programmed by CUMMINS to match my VIN, motor/tranny, and accessories is where the $1700 comes from.
the ECM I bought from Marco should arrive tomorrow, and the Tech said he would try it, but no promises.
the software he has does not allow him to re-burn a VIN, or load the ECM from ground zero.
wedding Anniversary is New Years Day. think I will Credit Card the wife's present, and hold on to my $$.
called and talked to the Tech.
He's all over it, he said my symptoms are "the ECM won't wake up" so it won't even talk, to let him erase it or blank it. it does some functions, like it will run fuel solenoid, but not much else.
so i do not think the BD Recovery Module will recover this ECM.
he told me he has been to all the schools, and talked about a lot of scenarios and situations that showed he has been thru the ECM drill before.
he said the "blank ECM" is a few hundred bucks, but the ECM programmed by CUMMINS to match my VIN, motor/tranny, and accessories is where the $1700 comes from.
the ECM I bought from Marco should arrive tomorrow, and the Tech said he would try it, but no promises.
the software he has does not allow him to re-burn a VIN, or load the ECM from ground zero.
wedding Anniversary is New Years Day. think I will Credit Card the wife's present, and hold on to my $$.
12-30-2005, 12:03 PM
#25
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update: ECM arrived, installed, gross mismatch of options.
the truck will "limp" but not really run, they were able to move it around the parking lot, but not driveable.
'all" dash lights are on, some are flashing (ABS & another one - i forgot)
Gypsy found me this TSB on the 03's, but the Service Manager said the 04's have to come programmed from Cummins.
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2002/18-019-02.htm
gonna call the local Cummins/Onan dealer and see if he has an option.
the truck will "limp" but not really run, they were able to move it around the parking lot, but not driveable.
'all" dash lights are on, some are flashing (ABS & another one - i forgot)
Gypsy found me this TSB on the 03's, but the Service Manager said the 04's have to come programmed from Cummins.
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2002/18-019-02.htm
gonna call the local Cummins/Onan dealer and see if he has an option.
12-30-2005, 12:21 PM
#26
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Here part of a TSB stating no ECM's will come programmed anylonger.
NUMBER: 18-030-03 REV. A
GROUP: Vehicle Performance
DATE: October 17, 2003
This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored
in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without written
permission of DaimlerChrysler Corporation.
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES SERVICE BULLETIN 18-030-03 DATED AUGUST 29,
2003, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE
HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES UPDATED PART NUMBERS,
SPECIAL TOOLS/EQUIPMENT, REVISED NOTES, AN ADDITIONAL FIGURE, AND AN
UPDATED REPAIR PROCEDURE.
SUBJECT:
Generic Cummins Engine Control Module (ECM) Procedure
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves programming a generic Cummins ECM with software.
MODELS:
1998 1/2 - 2002 (BE/BR) Ram Truck
2003 - 2004 (DR) Ram Truck
NOTE: This bulletin applies to Ram trucks equipped with the 5.9L Cummins 24-valve
diesel engine (sales code ETC or ETH).
DISCUSSION:
MoparT is phasing out pre-programmed Cummins Diesel Engine Control Modules (ECM). New
modules will no longer be pre-programmed when received from MoparT. Replacement of future
ECM’s will require programming utilizing the DRBIIIT and TechCONNECT. 1998 1/2 - 2002
modules will cause the “Wait to Start” light to flash, indicating the module has not been
programmed.
NUMBER: 18-030-03 REV. A
GROUP: Vehicle Performance
DATE: October 17, 2003
This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored
in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without written
permission of DaimlerChrysler Corporation.
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES SERVICE BULLETIN 18-030-03 DATED AUGUST 29,
2003, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE
HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES UPDATED PART NUMBERS,
SPECIAL TOOLS/EQUIPMENT, REVISED NOTES, AN ADDITIONAL FIGURE, AND AN
UPDATED REPAIR PROCEDURE.
SUBJECT:
Generic Cummins Engine Control Module (ECM) Procedure
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves programming a generic Cummins ECM with software.
MODELS:
1998 1/2 - 2002 (BE/BR) Ram Truck
2003 - 2004 (DR) Ram Truck
NOTE: This bulletin applies to Ram trucks equipped with the 5.9L Cummins 24-valve
diesel engine (sales code ETC or ETH).
DISCUSSION:
MoparT is phasing out pre-programmed Cummins Diesel Engine Control Modules (ECM). New
modules will no longer be pre-programmed when received from MoparT. Replacement of future
ECM’s will require programming utilizing the DRBIIIT and TechCONNECT. 1998 1/2 - 2002
modules will cause the “Wait to Start” light to flash, indicating the module has not been
programmed.
12-30-2005, 01:52 PM
#27
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Thread Starter
Artie, called & gave him that TSB number,
but he said it has to have a "base Program" which mine no longer has, in order for the DRBIIIt to work.
Made it sound like my "BIOS" was missing, so he can't load an operating system.
but he said it has to have a "base Program" which mine no longer has, in order for the DRBIIIt to work.
Made it sound like my "BIOS" was missing, so he can't load an operating system.
12-30-2005, 02:06 PM
#28
My God, this sounds frustrating. It's hard to believe a programmer caused all of this. I'd be upset to say the least.
Hope you get moving. Your never gonna be allowed to do anything but change the oil and filters after this.
My wife would kill me.
Hope you get moving. Your never gonna be allowed to do anything but change the oil and filters after this.
My wife would kill me.
12-30-2005, 03:14 PM
#29
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Sorry to hear that the truck is still no go. That said, the problem you're having now is most likely the fact that the ECM you have now does not have the correct ( matching to your truck ) software in it. The problem now longer is in a not responding ECM.
OK?
Now, gimme a DRB and I could fix your truck in half an hour.
You sure that tech knows what he's doing???? C'mon tell him to use a little fantasy.... Module display, to find out for what truck that ECM was for ( I believe it's for an 04.5 AT ) Then... shhhh
Marco
OK?
Now, gimme a DRB and I could fix your truck in half an hour.
You sure that tech knows what he's doing???? C'mon tell him to use a little fantasy.... Module display, to find out for what truck that ECM was for ( I believe it's for an 04.5 AT ) Then... shhhh
Marco
01-01-2006, 04:20 PM
#30
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Thread Starter
Marco, do you have a straight 04 ECM?
long as it is automatic, and does not have the security system, it should work enough for me to get the truck running, bring it home, and trade it in.
the 04.5 ECM only let it limp - another dealer would realize on the test drive that it's not running right,
if it will run without the dash lights all on with anohter 04 ECM, I'll trade it and be done with this. it needed new tires anyways....
sent you a PM.
long as it is automatic, and does not have the security system, it should work enough for me to get the truck running, bring it home, and trade it in.
the 04.5 ECM only let it limp - another dealer would realize on the test drive that it's not running right,
if it will run without the dash lights all on with anohter 04 ECM, I'll trade it and be done with this. it needed new tires anyways....
sent you a PM.