auto trans - flushing vs NOT flushing!
05-24-2006, 02:01 PM
#16
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Handled trans flushs (fliud exchange)on possably a few thousand of units.(over 4 years with 35 techs)Best thing since the INVENTION of a auto trans for a auto trans.Serviced filters on HARD usage every 60k and on light usage every 90k.Did FLEETS of DODGE trucks! Company owners were SHOCKED at the decrease of auto trans failures with the invent of a FLUSH or FLIUD EXCHANGE machine.Mail jeeps every 10 or 12k etc.Flushed units with morning sickness(internal seals hardened) and 100k on them and they IMPROVED or held togather a while longer.Only thing on a trans service that customers comminted SHIFTS LIKE NEW.First time they ever noticed a improvement after a trans service.NEVER got that with a filter and a few NEW quarts of trans fliud.DANG its a NEW CENTURY! Use some of the inventions and get out of the dark ages.We had TWO machines in our shop and they strayed BUSY.Enough so to wear out the fittings about twice a year.Shocked at the replies from some.New fliud causing issues over old THINNER etc.Some of these replies and answers! LMAO 
05-24-2006, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sled4fun
I have done hundreds upon hundreds of transmission services in my life as a tech. and talked with many rebuilders on this and I feel that if you service your transmission regularly and do not overheat/work it there is no reason to use a flush machine.
Many vehicles do not have provisions for draining the TQ (like they used to). I feel that the examples given (removing a trans cooler line, starting it and adding fluid) are perfectly fine if done properly. If your transmission has a drain plug on the pan already there is no problem with draining just the pan and adding fluid periodically...like every oil change if you want.
On my wifes Acura MDX is does not have a filter to change and only holds 8 or so Qts. of fluid. I drain and fill it every 15K. I will do the same on my truck and by doing this the fluid should never get bad.
What I have seen and been told is that when a tranmission is neglected, not service, overheated etc. it will build up a glaze and varnish on the clutch plates. The glaze & varnish on these plates can break-up and can cause all types of problems if a full on service or flush is done on a neglected trans.
What usually happens is that Joe customer neglects the trans., it gives a hiccup and he decides to give it its first service at 85,987 miles. The tech drops the pan and says to everyone in the shop "hey guys take a look at the mud that came out of this one" everybody laughs in the shop and the tech changes the filter and finishes the service. He test drives it and everything is working fine. Joe customer picks up the vehicle and drives home. A week of driving goes by and the transmission seems to be acting funny again. He brings it back in saying that it all started after that transmission service/flush was done....go figure! Now he is going to tell everyone that the flush damaged the transmission. Well I don't think so......The neglect damaged the transmission!!!
Many vehicles do not have provisions for draining the TQ (like they used to). I feel that the examples given (removing a trans cooler line, starting it and adding fluid) are perfectly fine if done properly. If your transmission has a drain plug on the pan already there is no problem with draining just the pan and adding fluid periodically...like every oil change if you want.
On my wifes Acura MDX is does not have a filter to change and only holds 8 or so Qts. of fluid. I drain and fill it every 15K. I will do the same on my truck and by doing this the fluid should never get bad.
What I have seen and been told is that when a tranmission is neglected, not service, overheated etc. it will build up a glaze and varnish on the clutch plates. The glaze & varnish on these plates can break-up and can cause all types of problems if a full on service or flush is done on a neglected trans.
What usually happens is that Joe customer neglects the trans., it gives a hiccup and he decides to give it its first service at 85,987 miles. The tech drops the pan and says to everyone in the shop "hey guys take a look at the mud that came out of this one" everybody laughs in the shop and the tech changes the filter and finishes the service. He test drives it and everything is working fine. Joe customer picks up the vehicle and drives home. A week of driving goes by and the transmission seems to be acting funny again. He brings it back in saying that it all started after that transmission service/flush was done....go figure! Now he is going to tell everyone that the flush damaged the transmission. Well I don't think so......The neglect damaged the transmission!!!
05-24-2006, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Hounddog
What Bull. I use to know folkes that never changed oil cause it don't wear out also.JMHO
05-24-2006, 08:18 PM
#20
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That is not a fact it is just an opinion. Let me ask everyone something. Would you change only half of your oil???? I think not. Get off that money and service the thing with a flush every 30,000. Guy in town with a 2nd Gen has over 300,000 mile on his transmission (47RE). He is a farmer so he flushs it every 15,000 miles. Facts are if you don't service it like you are supposed to you WILL have problems. Everyone is scared of something new and no one likes changes. Give it a try. You might get welcome surprise. This subject is a dead horse. 
05-24-2006, 08:21 PM
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You left 90% of the old fliud in it.You decide.Adding 3 gals of clean water to a 25 gallon water trough dosen't make the rest clean.Its not a opinion.Auto service and repair was my profession for 25 years.I know how much life the fliud exchange machines add to the life of a auto trans.So do lots of fleet and business owners.Most shops of good caliper own one and large shops two or three machines.
05-24-2006, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Spooler
That is not a fact it is just an opinion. Let me ask everyone something. Would you change only half of your oil???? I think not. Get off that money and service the thing with a flush every 30,000. Guy in town with a 2nd Gen has over 300,000 mile on his transmission (47RE). He is a farmer so he flushs it every 15,000 miles. Facts are if you don't service it like you are supposed to you WILL have problems. Everyone is scared of something new and no one likes changes. Give it a try. You might get welcome surprise. This subject is a dead horse.
issue. I have never been scared to try something new.I change my tranny fluid and filter every 15,000 miles,and have run trannys for 200,000 miles plus without the famous tranny flush,H,MM. 
I feel no need to spend extra money for the tranny flush if you do proper maintience.coobie
05-24-2006, 09:34 PM
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Everyone has an opinion on frequency of servicing a transmission and/or flushing it.
Having been a service advisor for a high volume Acura dealership I can tell you that not all dealerships have your vehicle's best interest in mind when it comes to routine maintenance. An example of this is that our dealership used to provide all scheduled maintenance under the SEVERE schedule. Due to the environment that we live in...heat etc. It was certainly the best schedule to use as the frequency of transmission servicing alone was done at least every 30,000 miles. Then the Acura dealership across town started advertising their services much cheaper than ours and our dealership thought that we were loosing business because of this. Come to fine out they were doing a 30,000 mile service, but using the normal schedule which is a very very minimal service. The transmission service alone is almost forgotten for many many 1000's of miles on this normal schedule. So their dealership was offering less $$$ for a 30,000 mile service and since not many people will ask what schedule the dealership is using...BAM they got the business. Our dealership then changed over to a normal maintenance schedule and matched their prices. I felt that we should have kept out maintenance schedule at the severe schedule and explained our features and benefits to Joe customer. Most people want their vehicle maintained properly and assume that the dealer knows all. Well not all 30,000 mile services are the same.
Getting back to flushing a transmission with a machine. I say great if you have one or have access to one. Just don't do it every 90,000 miles. I would do a trany flush every 15,000 miles and change the filter every other flush. If by chance you had reason to believe that you overheated or stressed the tranmission fluid....change it and the filter A.S.A.P.
Having been a service advisor for a high volume Acura dealership I can tell you that not all dealerships have your vehicle's best interest in mind when it comes to routine maintenance. An example of this is that our dealership used to provide all scheduled maintenance under the SEVERE schedule. Due to the environment that we live in...heat etc. It was certainly the best schedule to use as the frequency of transmission servicing alone was done at least every 30,000 miles. Then the Acura dealership across town started advertising their services much cheaper than ours and our dealership thought that we were loosing business because of this. Come to fine out they were doing a 30,000 mile service, but using the normal schedule which is a very very minimal service. The transmission service alone is almost forgotten for many many 1000's of miles on this normal schedule. So their dealership was offering less $$$ for a 30,000 mile service and since not many people will ask what schedule the dealership is using...BAM they got the business. Our dealership then changed over to a normal maintenance schedule and matched their prices. I felt that we should have kept out maintenance schedule at the severe schedule and explained our features and benefits to Joe customer. Most people want their vehicle maintained properly and assume that the dealer knows all. Well not all 30,000 mile services are the same.
Getting back to flushing a transmission with a machine. I say great if you have one or have access to one. Just don't do it every 90,000 miles. I would do a trany flush every 15,000 miles and change the filter every other flush. If by chance you had reason to believe that you overheated or stressed the tranmission fluid....change it and the filter A.S.A.P.
05-24-2006, 11:41 PM
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All these tranny guys are saying the flush is bad. Yet!!! it's O.K. to drain the pan, add a few qts of new fluid, and your good to go, sounds like horsecrap to me. The dealer says to flush with their machine. Charges maybe $180 for it, which includes the materials, labor, disposal, and machine. Fresh fluid, backed by the dealership.
I had all fluids changed last week for the 30k schedule. They charged me $400.00 +/- (don't remember), had my truck for a day, called me when it was done, and called me the next day to make sure I was happy.
I've had the truck for 15 months now, and have yet to pay for a single OLF as they send me free coupons every time I fill out their 5 star survey. I was happy to pay for their service, just as they are happy to change my oil for free. What I don't understand is, why doubt what these service advisors are recommending. Let them do their job, make them feel like they are doing you a favor for suggesting the proper maintenance, and see where the chips fall. I walk into my dealership, and they treat me like a king. Nobody tells me my warranty's void because I've got big tires, or a module, they make sure I'm happy with my vehicle which to me seems to be worth alot more than saving a couple of $bux on a half *** fluid change.
I had all fluids changed last week for the 30k schedule. They charged me $400.00 +/- (don't remember), had my truck for a day, called me when it was done, and called me the next day to make sure I was happy.
I've had the truck for 15 months now, and have yet to pay for a single OLF as they send me free coupons every time I fill out their 5 star survey. I was happy to pay for their service, just as they are happy to change my oil for free. What I don't understand is, why doubt what these service advisors are recommending. Let them do their job, make them feel like they are doing you a favor for suggesting the proper maintenance, and see where the chips fall. I walk into my dealership, and they treat me like a king. Nobody tells me my warranty's void because I've got big tires, or a module, they make sure I'm happy with my vehicle which to me seems to be worth alot more than saving a couple of $bux on a half *** fluid change.
05-25-2006, 05:38 AM
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The trans fliud like TODAYS MOTOR oils have a LONGER life then years past.Filters are better.Even a filter change every other flush is overkill.Unless truck worked HARD flush it at 30k and filter at 60k or flush it every 15k and filter at 60k.Pick the way you want to do it if you prefer but the FLUSH(fliud exchange is more in reality) is the best thing for the consumer(trans life) since the invent of a auto trans.I never professed to know more about someone eles business or job but I knew mine WELL. SPOOLER was a pro tech for years also.UI'm fixing to do the FIRST filter on wifes 2000 Gran Marguis(v8,rwd) at 90k all hwy miles.Has been flushed TWICE with Amsoil ATF in the past.Last auto had a 700r4 that got flushed every 30k,filter at 90k standard trans fliud and sold auto with 254k and NO tranny issues ever.
05-25-2006, 08:39 AM
#26
When I first got my truck (used 26K) I dropped the pan just to see and check the adjustment on the l/r band (I find alot of the bands quite loose from the factory). I flush mine every 25-30K. It will get a new filter next time as I'm coming up on the 100K mark.
05-25-2006, 10:02 AM
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????
Originally Posted by Hounddog
You left 90% of the old fliud in it.You decide.Adding 3 gals of clean water to a 25 gallon water trough dosen't make the rest clean.Its not a opinion.Auto service and repair was my profession for 25 years.I know how much life the fliud exchange machines add to the life of a auto trans.So do lots of fleet and business owners.Most shops of good caliper own one and large shops two or three machines.
I did not realize that the torque converter, the lines to and from the transmission cooler, and the cooler itself hold 18 quarts. Something seems amiss to me, but then I don't have an automatic.
05-25-2006, 10:20 AM
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I got 9 quarts in by diconnecting the return line (by the filter) not up by the radiator..
Since I am in question about my tranny - I am to do a complete change out again by diconnecting the return at the radiator and turn the truck on for a few sec to get most out... put in B&M drain plug in the pan and then I would have changed the fld once - run it for 500 miles - drop the pan again and do a "almost complete" full again.. I think everything will be happy then... plus I changed to schaeffers 204s-AT ATF fld.. (the first time)
Since I am in question about my tranny - I am to do a complete change out again by diconnecting the return at the radiator and turn the truck on for a few sec to get most out... put in B&M drain plug in the pan and then I would have changed the fld once - run it for 500 miles - drop the pan again and do a "almost complete" full again.. I think everything will be happy then... plus I changed to schaeffers 204s-AT ATF fld.. (the first time)
05-25-2006, 10:28 AM
#30
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It depends on the system. Cooler size, TC, VB, and so on. One type of car I worked on was 4 Qts. drain and fill. Flush it was around 8 or 9 Qts. This vehicle had it's cooler in the radiator (small). That is a big cooler on the front of our trucks. I beat it holds 2 to 3 quarts at least. Drain and fill for our trucks is around 6 quarts with filter change. 18 quarts for a flush (I think from what I remember). That is why I say you MAY get half if you do a filter change( it is more like 1/3 of the fluid). If you drop the pan every 15,000 miles for a filter change you may be O.K. but why not just flush it every 30,000? I don't know the use of the vehicle so I can't say what I would do.
The only time you have to worry about issues is when you haven't serviced it for like 80,000 miles. On the older vehicles (Fords mainly) they would have a buildup of debris in the oil that would help wear out the clutchs so when you changed the fluid that added clearance would increase because you would have no more debris in the fluid. I have never seen this happen at all!!!!!!!! It has always been shop tails of issue. EXAMPLE: I heard Mike tell me that when he worked over at such and such he knew a guy that seviced a transmission that when he finished couldn't even pull it out the bay when he was done. IF you believe that story I have some land for sale off the coast of Savannah (Remote Island beautiful place) It'll coast you about 3 Million. Do ya want it?????
Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.
The only time you have to worry about issues is when you haven't serviced it for like 80,000 miles. On the older vehicles (Fords mainly) they would have a buildup of debris in the oil that would help wear out the clutchs so when you changed the fluid that added clearance would increase because you would have no more debris in the fluid. I have never seen this happen at all!!!!!!!! It has always been shop tails of issue. EXAMPLE: I heard Mike tell me that when he worked over at such and such he knew a guy that seviced a transmission that when he finished couldn't even pull it out the bay when he was done. IF you believe that story I have some land for sale off the coast of Savannah (Remote Island beautiful place) It'll coast you about 3 Million. Do ya want it?????
Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.