linetrash75

Yah I know it works but it turns on that pesky abs and brake light.

Jed

JohnInNH

Pulling the ABS pump 40 amp fuse on my 06 did the same thing, worked till the roads packed down and I put the fuse back in. I can put up with the lights on for a day.

The ABS is not that bad on packed snow... Or slush... It was the 7-9" of light stuff when it was only 5 deg F out that gave me the real trouble.

Dealer (service tech) agrees there should be a switch, that resets to active each key switch. (so you would have to switch it off every time you started the truck with the default being on.) Seems the ABS is not very popular with the other plow guys in some conditions as well.

I am going to look into making a toggle switch to splice in someplace. Will make it easier for the adverse off road conditions, AND make it easier to RE-activate when returning to pavement. (maybe I can make it deactivate when I switch into 4x4)

thejeepdude

Didn't he say "ON SNOW"?!?!?! SCCA driver? An unlicensed old lady would benefit from turning off ABS on these trucks in the snow! The stopping performance in icy/slushy conditions is pathetic. It's not a matter of what we THINK, it's a matter of FACT. In 2" of snow, my truck will stop in about 1/4 the distance with the ABS fuses pulled and wheels locked up than it will with ABS trying to keep me rolling and get traction on top of the snow.

D.Wiggs

Yes his did, and I said SCCA driver. Now that we covered the assertions we can move on as this statement was trivial.

This is patently false. If the use of steering were required or threshold braking, then an old woman would most likely not benefit and in fact, be greatly hindered by the lack of ABS. Stopping a truck without ABS requires a lot of skill, calmness, and a great amount of practice in the vehicle you are trying to do it in. An old lady, especially an unliscensed one, would not even come close to being competent enough to do those aforementioned things. In fact, I would venture to say that 99% of all drivers are not capable of doing it, hence my statement about being SCCA liscenced.

This too, is patently false. You should be much more careful about what you state as FACT as opposed to assumption. These trucks, WITH or WITHOUT ABS will ONLY stop as fast as the tires allow. Locking up the wheels does not help or hurt if you have no traction. I can stop phenominally well in my truck in very low traction situations and it is due ONLY to the fact my tires have traction. You THINK that disabling ABS will improve stopping performance. It would only be FACT if, in EVERY SINGLE CASE and in EVERY POSSIBLE WORLD this were the case. However, this is not the case. First off, one must be a competent driver and be able to handle the truck without ABS, and not everyone is. Second, if steering around anything is required, the number of times that disabling ABS will help is GREATLY reduced because most people do not understand how to properly thresh-hold brake.

If this were actually true, your tires are the problem with your traction woes and NOT the ABS system. In 2" of snow, in realistic driving conditions (i.e., around 25-35 MPH, not at 80 or 90 MPH), the difference between using ABS and not using ABS will be a matter of a few feet (very important mind you when it comes to not ending up in someone's truck) and not a 4:1 ratio.

Sorry to put so many holes in your theory!

thejeepdude

LOL you didn't put any holes in my "theory". I merely state facts from experience. You're telling me that when there's 2" of snow, I am GUARANTEED to stop faster with ABS than without unless I am an SCCA driver? That's ridiculous. ABS will not allow the tires to lock up in this situation which is precisely what is needed to push the snow out of the way and gain traction on the pavement. Granted, if the conditions are just right and there's wet ice under the snow, then you're going for a ride either way. You can believe what you want, but I'd be willing to "brake for pinks" if you ever want test this theory head to head.

BTW, I will concede to you that steering is nill while locked up, but most of the time I've needed better braking is when coming to an intersection and the light turned red quicker than I anticipated, so ABS let me drive right into the intersection. Without ABS I would have stopped in time. If I was planning to turn, the situation wouldn't have arisen in the first place. If it was a panic situation where someone pulled out and I had to avoid them, ABS may help or may hurt, depending on if the most viable evasive action was to stop or turn.

What about the time I was descending a steep icy hill and I could not stop... period. I ended up smashing the parking brake and locked em up, stopping just fine. I suppose I wasn't a good enough driver then, either.

D.Wiggs

No, that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that you are NOT guaranteed to stop faster without ABS than you are with it. My point, as you brought up, is that there are so many 'other' factors, that you cannot say with any degree of certainty. In fact, at best you are guessing. Even your 'experience' does not count for much in this because of how limited it is as compared to the trillions of possible combinations of conditions a vehicle can encounter. You seemed to take my negation of your statement as an assertion of something other than its logical negation, and that is not the case. I simply said that not having ABS is not NECESSARILY better. My SCCA license prerequisite was merely to point out that only those 'types' of skilled drivers are able to manage vehicles without ABS; it is not for the 'average Joe'.

Festus

Jed,

I solved this problem by strategically placing a square of electrical tape on the clear plastic, in front of the dash cluster. When perfectly placed, there will be no glare from the ABS light - mine was especially a pain at night......so, I took care of it - offroad purpose speaking of course.

Struggle

I will not get into the ABS verse non ABS but will say this. My truck has the BFG A/T from the factory and with no weight in the truck on flat roads and light snow conditions of around an inch on the ground it is difficullt to leave a stop sign from tire spin if not in 4wd. Once in 4wd no problems.

Clearly these trucks are very rear end lite. Most short comings are from lack of weight in the back it seems to me.

Someone else pointed out about trucks being the first ones off the road. Where I live in general you are going up a hill or down one. Trucks are always the first in the ditch around here.

The only time we drive the truck for weather problems the snow would have to be greater than 6" on the road otherwise I feel safer in the mini-van. My truck has the locking rear-end and it is like a hog on ice with lite snow on the ground.

Trucks truly have stopping problems when compared to the rest of the vehicles on the road.

thejeepdude

Sure, there are lots of factors. I didn't say ABS wasn't beneficial in some situations. But for ME, in MY truck, in the snow that I drive in, on the days I am there in it, with the conditions that are occurring on the day I am there, ABS SUCKS. I'd say a lot of other people agree for THEIR situations as well, hence the electrical tape and fuse comments that I didn't make.

Festus

Put some weight in the back for one, get rid ofthe BFG's for two, and three......for gosh sakes man.....don't let your friends see you in a minivan. I believe you mean your truck came with the Rugged Trails - DC wouldn't splurge on A/T's from the factory and yes, they're crap just like my Ford comapany truck when it had them.


Struggle, no offense, but up here, you'll rarely see a pickup without weight in the winter - simple fix. I only mention the BFG A/T's because I had bad luck with mine when I put them on my '98 - found they were great when brand new, but seriously dwindled in traction on any surface as soon as minute wear began - they lasted me less than 28500 km. / 18000 mi. - my opinion the worst investment in tires I ever entered upon. And the minivan thing....well....that's self explanatory.

Struggle

No offense taken. My situation is a little bit unique in that I just do not drive the truck in the winter so tires will have to wait. I know the tires are no good in the snow. I went through the same thing with a 97 Chevy 2500 with general 550s. I got over 70,000 on them and went to a true A/T tire and was amazed at the difference.

The mini van is a drag but it does work well with the family. If the Ram is run on short trips it seems to me I am just letting it down. Come summer time it will be happy with the 5th wheel behind it again.

I have had my truck over 2 years now and it only has 14,000 miles on it. I put under 4k on it in 06. Now that said I am pulling on my flame suit

I do agree that most people just do not know how to drive trucks though. Most people that buy them are buying just to have a truck. Diesels seem to follow a different crowd from the norm though

LastOutlaw

There was a recall on all 06 ABS control moduels, I hade mine replaced and my ABS work fine talk to your dealership

6 2 Carl

I cannot believe how many people support the abs brakes on these trucks. Sure under some conditions the abs may help breaking performance for some drivers. The people who argue for abs obviously haven’t experienced just how disastrous these abs brakes can be. I have owned my truck for almost three years, and have not had one case where I said, “boy I ‘m sure glad I have abs brakes” However I have had at least a dozen instances where I have said “wow good thing there’s nobody in front of me, cause there’s no way I’m stopping” and then there as been a couple of near miss accidents, and I won’t mention what I said in those cases.

I find that a gravel washboard surface upsets the abs on these trucks the most. How the truck reacts on these surfaces is down right dangerous. I do a lot of driving on back wood oilfield roads. There have been many occasions that I’m late to see my turn off, and I try to break moderately hard to make it. This isn’t a critical situation, but the truck simply doesn’t stop.

It is even worse in the winter if there is a snow packed road and washboard. I did back to back tests last winter, and my results made me surprised that there hasn’t been a lawsuit over these unsafe brakes. After missing another turn off with essentially non-existent braking from the abs system. I pulled the abs fuse and drove over the same section again slammed on the brakes, the tires locked up and dug in. The truck stopped so hard that anything that was on the seats wound up on the floor. The difference was night and day.

Needless to say during the winter I drive without my abs fuse, as I know first hand how dangerous it is.

JohnInNH

Wiggs....

If you do not have enough traction (per the ABS) so that you can't stop .. then your lateral traction is nil as well... So forget the "steering around an object" in minimal traction environments. Obviously you don't drive close to 4 months out of a year on snow or you would know what we are all talking about.

Driving on a track is about as relevant for driving on snow as swimming is to ice skating (they are both "water" right?)

Nothing personal and I usually value what you say, and think you are a good guy from all your posts I have read..... but come on up and try it some time. Seriously.. It's a blast.. the salt is good for your truck too. LOL.

Come up and play with that big maga in the snow! We can test your ABS... Or come up in the summer and let me spank you in the twisties with my Miata (or try). I feel I have some of the best sports car roads in the country all with in miles of my house. We could test your, and my ABS on dirt, gravel and sand on pavement too I would love to see your lambo on our roads here and what real ABS is supposed to do off the track. Just leave "Diesel" at home. :-) would scare the crap outta my wife.

Just like on the track talk is cheep.. those who talk poop about being a "racer" the truth comes out on the track.

No "attitude" here... but the same goes for conditions here. 35 years of experience driving in the snow *IS* my "SCCA" training. :-) Not that my years of driving my sports cars has not helped either ; ...

As an example my brother is in racing school with his Lotus, and after years of me talking about counter steering, drifting, and threshold breaking he finally knows what I am talking about .. so yes, formal training helps..... (So did my LE driving classes and my autocross experience. I get paid to drive)

You assume (or it appears you do) that we don't know how to drive, don't know what we are talking about, or we are just making up stuff. I am sure you can drive you car on the track better than I can... But I most probably can drive my truck the same or maybe even better in the snow on the roads here than you can..

Why can't people believe us when we say that in some conditions ABS is a hindrance/hazard

In the original situation I had (with the ABS not letting me stop) trying to steer to avoid a car sliding out of their driveway (which I easily could have easily stopped for W/O the ABS) would be close to useless.

Turn the rolling wheels off center and they will just "plow", and you still go straight.. till they dig in .. IF they catch they will pull the front end and can easily set up a slide sideways.

I drive with 4 studded snows on ALL my cars/trucks. I put a minimum of 300 lbs in the back of the truck .. When plowing 600 or more. I also have an ARE bed cap which adds weight. It's not about improper equipment.

Usually the ABS is not all that bad... BUT in some conditions it is SERIOUSLY dangerous, with a minimum of 3 times the stopping distance, or a loss of stopping ability completely (down hill). You become the energizer bunny and keep going and going.....

I drive in severe weather all the time. Rain/wet pavement pfffft... big deal. Snow ice and mud are the norm. I grew up in this stuff.

On "paper" ABS is fantastic.. Dry pavement it is wonderful. ... It however needs serious improvements to make it really work in less than ideal conditions (dry or just wet clean pavement).

Suggestions for improvement:

Variable ABS by speed. (disable (0%) at 5-10 MPH)

disable in 4x4

Write code that lets the ABS sense if there is more resistance when locked vs. unlocked, by percentage say 50% to 25%? Locked has 2x more resiance than pulsing. Letting you access the resistance so you CAN use the available resistance to brake.

True individual sensing ABS independent for each wheel So all tires have full ability to brake if they can.

The whole point of ABS is to maximize your ability to STOP and to not loose control. The ability of the current ABS to "sense" the road is *very* limited. All it does is sense tire lock, period. It does not measure any traction comparing it to locked vs. unlocked.

There are inherent design flaws (inadequacies) in the current systems.

Wiggs..

IF your race car was getting loose in the rear end in corners (do to alignment or something wrong) and your professional mechanic said you were just driving wrong, or you were just driving to fast. How woudl you feel? It would be the same as "people" telling us ABS is better and we are just driving to fast, wrong, have bad tires, and the slew of other things they say.

ABS is good and ABS is bad. I believe we should have the right to choose.

Just like putting on real snow tires enhances your safety so can disabling ABS in those conditions. It is more responsible to test for yourself in different conditions ABS on and ABS off, than it is to just assume ABS is the BEST in all conditions.

Anything I can do to make my truck perform and be safer (like shocks, better tires, weight in the back and disabling ABS when the conditions make it safer to disconnect it) is a good thing not a bad thing. Unless you personally test your ABS (on and off) for all the different conditions you don't know.

*I* test all of my cars with and with out it. This way I know how my cars/truck will perform with ABS.. and more importantly w/o it.

If people knew that shutting off ABS in some conditions would let them stop 60+% faster I am sure they would be a lot of hoopla.... Most people have no clue how much distance ABS *CAN* add to their stopping distance..

How about mandatory traction control that prevents tire spin? It would prevent illegal behavior. (burn outs and hazardous driving) It would help you control slipping and prevent accidents. Just like ABS is supposed to do.

Most of what the performance forum talks about is in violation of EPA for "on road" and is more dangerous than disabling ABS. Liked lifted trucks, and over size tires. Both are safety problems.

Larger diameter tires change the mechanical advantage of the brakes, lifts change roll over, maneuverability, bumper heights (leading to fatalities), front end problems, early component wear, and the severe unsprung weight change causing inadequate damping (or as some say dampening). Why pick on something as minimal as wanting to switch off ABS, which is an OPTION, not mandatory or against the law to change.

I really do not understand the reason so many are so passionate about us who have a legitimate NEED to deactivate this system just when needed. That's about being SAFER... not about going faster.. making more smoke, burning more fuel, driving faster or braking federal EPA laws.

It's like a person saying they have a Smarty/Qaud/Turbo problem than people chiming in saying that they are breaking Federal EPA laws by modifying their fueling system. Geesh... Just a little hypocritical

Maybe instead of saying ABS stinks I should have said "I need a "mod" that makes my truck stop better in snow"

I am sure most of us .. (you and I included) mostly agree and we are just nit picking. I agree ABS is good most of the time. It's good for lots of people, and not for others. (like a person who drove w/o ABS for 50 years who then pump the brakes, like they were taught to, when ABS activates and get into accidents)

LOL.... This is the whole point of why I wanted to limit content of this thread to just how to turn it off and not a how to cure the world of all it's "ills" debate.

The other ABS threads that go page after page have links to some good ABS data. Statistics both pro and anti. Like most statistics you can manipulate them to say anything you want.

Sorry for my earlier impatience... Just after reading all the mega threads I did not want to start another "debate/lecture"


Jed... I use the electrical tape trick for my overly bright, night vision killing, high beam dash indicator light on long over the road trips. Works good

Don't get caught you might get sued! LMAO...

TurboTed

Slow down when it's so icy! You should try stopping with my Allero on ice. I put about 300lbs. in the back, and lowered my tire pressure to about 47psi, as I'm not carrying a load. (Check the tire ratings for empty and full on the side of the driver's door. Not on the tire itself.) My truck stops as well as any other pickup I've owned the past 30 years. I had the Michellins on my 03, and I have the BFG's on this truck. I rate my BFG's twice as good for traction than the Michellins. Just my opinions. A lot of people seem to think that their SUV or 4X4 pickup will stop better on ice, so they simply don't slow down enough. Every time we have ice on the highways, there are Trucks not only in the ditch, but on their roof! We especially notice this with the one's that have the "part time" 4x4, where if the truck senses slippage, it's supposed to go into 4X4. (GM's) If it's icy; 1) Put it in 4X4. 2) Slow down accordingly.