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05 3500 engine and G56 swap into 03 2500 automatic
If I missed a previous thread let me know!
Just trying to make sure this swap will go how I’m thinking.
i have a 2005 Ram 3500 diesel manual 2x4 dually and I just bought a 2003 Ram 2500 4x4 diesel automatic for a deal and the truck is clean but the engine is fubar’d (number 6 is scoured).
so I believe if I swap the engine, computer, trans, and dash into the 03 the truck will run, and new tcase (tcase is a 271 manual shift) or input shaft and driveshaft lengths and it should drive
i think I have to swap motor mounts as well.
will the 2x4 oil pan work? will the 48re mount location for a g56?
the goal is to swap everything and have the 03 be a turn key DD within 9 days of starting, pretty reasonable I think for one guy
Thank for the input!
03 has 171k totally stock
05 has 261k tuned and excellent oil reports over the last 30k
FAQ
why? I want 4x4
rebuild the 03 motor! Not interested
03 motor is better! No the 05 still runs
why swap the tranny? I don’t like automatics
Thanks again God bless 🇺🇸 2003 2005
There is lots going on with your swap plans with these 2 trucks! 2 different engines, ECM's, wiring harnesses. auto to manual trans, 2wd to 4wd.
If I remember correctly, converting the 3rd Gen 2wd Dodge Cummins frame to 4wd is a challenge.
I think the front 2wd frame front cross-member is completely different than the 4wd front cross-member and they are both welded to the frame.
It's not a common to convert 2wd to 4wd in Dodges, unlike the Ford Superduties.
It's been done but I would research that before I opened up the tool box.
If the 4wd conversion is as difficult as I recall, the other option would be to use 4wd frame and swap all the desired parts into that frame.
OOPS, I think I misread your post and your plans.. I think I got it completely wrong!
Trying again...
So you want to swap the 2005 2wd engine, ECM, wiring harness, G56 manual trans, and dash into the 2003 4wd, auto trans, manual 271 tcase.??
Yes sir!
2003 frame body and axles with 2005 engine, harness and transmission
I almost did a frame swap but the title for my last truck was rebuildable so I sold the truck
(if I remember while I’m doing the swap I’ll take comparison pictures of the frames so we can lay the 4wd conversion discussion to rest, I wish they were around a few years ago when I wanted to do one myself, I know the spring buckets and axle mounts are totally different)
So the plan is to swap the 2005 2wd engine, ECM, wiring harness, G56 manual trans, and dash into the 2003 4wd, auto trans, manual 271 tcase.??
1. The 2wd G56 manual trans is identical to a 4wd G56 manual trans. If you climb under your 2wd G56 trans, you can see that is already has the flange to bolt a transfer case to it.
2. I don't think the 47/48RE auto trans in the 2003 truck is the same length as the G56 trans. I'm sure you will have to lengthen/shorten the driveshafts after the swap.
3. The manual transmission trucks use a different transfer case than the auto trans trucks. The input spline count on the transfer cases are different.
Not sure if you can convert your auto trans transfer case to work on a G56 manual transmission. You may have to purchase a manual transmission transfer case.
4. Rather than swap in the 2005 ECM and wiring harness into the 2003 truck, I would just swap in the 2005 engine and then flash the 2003 ECM with a manual trans program that also has the 2005 engine calibration.
This will require research and a Smarty programmer.
5. I hope the 2003 4x4 truck has 3.73 gears. If it has 4:10 gears, you won't like that with a G56 unless you plan much larger diameter tires.
Just my thoughts.. There is a lot going on here between the 2 very different trucks.
It’s all good
yes the 2003 has 4.10 gears, I can swap them later if I have too, I already thought about that and I’ll look up the cost to regear
the harnesses should be different, 2003 is drive by cable, and 2005 is drive by wire
i heard about swapping input shafts on the tcase, I’m pretty sure that’s the only difference between manual and automatics for the tcase
It sounds like you have already done research and put much thought into the swap which is excellent.
Swapping the 2005 ECM and wiring harness into the 2003 truck could turn into a challenge plus then you will have a 2003 truck with a bunch of mismatched parts which could make it difficult to diagnose down the road plus resale value.
While it will cost money, I recommend to purchase a Smarty programmer and custom ECM flash. This will leave your 2003 ECM and wiring harness untouched.
Just my opinion.
I agree it looks like a well thought out swap...The part I wouldn't like is losing the 5th and 6th wheels on the ground...I'm not a very good driver, and I need the training wheels......Ben
That’s what I’m trying to figure out, what would be mismatched? I plan on swapping the entire dashboard and configuring the engine bay like the 2005, the main wiring concern I believe is if the rear harness will need to be rewired, I believe the whole engine bay and headlight wiring come out of the fire wall and under the drivers floor board
i ripped apart a 04.5 and then rebuilt it so I have half an idea how the engine bay goes together
the 03 has a computer on the fire wall where the coolant resivior is on the 05 is big difference, but that’s why I plan to reconfigure to make it match an 05
the only mismatch I think will be for brakes or driveline
as for the resale value I’m not concerned, I’m putting a newer much more desirable transmission in it
atleast in my opinion
Hi there. I understand some of the challenges you face. I just put a 2006 engine into a 2003. It will be nearly impossible to integrate the 2005 ecm. They have different communications protocols. Use the 2003 ecm and the 2005 injectors and the 2005 turbo. Power the 2005 wastegate with 12 v and it will make around 30 psi.
I looked at smarty but but just too much $$ for me. I have to program a pair of gm lq4s (v8) so I bought a hp tuners mpv2. Guess what? For an extra 100us it will program a 2003 Cummins too. Way cheaper and fully awesome. Does require a laptop. The 2003 table format is different than the 2005. I reprogrammed the 2003 to approximate the 2005.
Use the 2003 harness and then you just have to change over the coolant temp
sensor. Change the top parts on the engine to the 2003 style for the injector electrical and valve cover etc. All else is identical. Use the 2003 cooling fan and fan shroud.
Thanks for the info
the 03 has the ecm on the firewall and 05 has it mounted on the block
using the 05 harness should eliminate the issue of the harness not reaching the ecm
did 03 and 05 use the same bulk head connectors? For the dash and rear truck harness
why did you not use the 06 harness on your swap?
you mentioned an issue with the engine protocol
is this from something in the dash?
I know 2003-2004 are very similar and 2004.5-2005 are very similar and 2006 was another change
could your protocol issue have come from trying to use the 2003 harness?
This is what I’m most concerned the wiring
but by changing the whole dash and engine harness and ecm, is there anything else that is a computer on the truck to conflict with it?
On my 2003, the ecm is still on the block. Mine is a 4x4 HO version. There is another unit on the firewall, on the passenger side; this is the transmission control unit for the auto trans. After 2003 it was built into the ecm.
I have read a lot and my reading indicates there are changes in the bulkead connectors for the wiring harnesses (Pinout changed I believe). I didn't want to get into that headache, so I used the 2003 harness.
I can't remember the names, but these trucks used several different protocols. The 2003 to 04 used one. I was told some of the 2005s use the same protocol, and then I think they switched to can bus sometime during 2005. there may be an orphan protocol in the middle there somewhere too. I did not confirm, as I always intended to use the 2003 computer. At first I modded the crank position sensor trigger wheel to retard timing, but after purchasing the hp tuners device, the crank sensor wheel is back to stock and the timing is retuned. At stock levels I'm pretty sure my hack would have been fine. I ran it this way for several weeks and it seemed fine except for a bit of timing rattle as I rolled onto the throttle at low power settings.
The issue with comm protocol is not just the ecm unfortunately. Or the dash. For signal lights, headlights, turn signals etc, the switches you operate apply different resistance values to inputs on a controller, which is a device in the guage cluster. The guage cluster then sends a communication signal to the fuse box (TIPM) in the engine bay, which decodes the communication signal, and turns on the what you have selected. So if you change the dash there is a good chance none of you lighting/power door locks, etc etc will work.
I have a feeling there is only 1 comms bus, and that screweing with one component (ECM ) will kill it all. I considered paralleling the inputs to both the 2003 and 2005 ecm, but in the end found the hp tuners solution.
If you change the dash, ecm and change the old style TIPM(Actually two modules stuck together, names eludes me at the moment) to a new style TIPM (Huge job) then it would perhaps work. It would be a roll of the dice. There may be TIPM VIN match issues...could get ugly.
Even if all that worked, there may still be a VIN match issue between the ecm and the security module, which I think may end up being the biggest roadblock. You'd have to get the ecm programmed with the original VIN somehow.
These are a few of the many reasons that people try to stick with their years engines. With the tuners out now, it has become a bit more reasonable to do this stuff.
Still lots going on in this thread. All this swapping really educates one on the changes Dodge and Cummins made over the years and how they work.
The 2006-07 5.9L trucks are wired completely different than the 2003-05 trucks.
Dodge went to Canbus and TIPM power mgmnt in 2006. Canbus became mandated in North American in (I think) 2008.
The 2003-05 Dodge Cummins are SCI (serial communication interface).
The 2006 trucks had initial electrical problems, but Canbus is superior to SCI.
Green Machine/Chay, you should update your other thread on how you programmed your 2003 truck's ECM with a 2004.5+ program to run your 2006 engine.
I'm curious how you loaded a custom program on your HPT programmer.
Green Machine is correct, the Cummins ECM is mounted on the engine block. From 1998.5 to present.
The TCM (automatic transmission control module) changed from external to internal, back and forth over the years.
Southern Welder, are you just going to part out and scrap the 2005 truck after all the swapping?
This could change the recommendations.
My plan was to put the 03 parts in the 05 for a project sale or possible build/parts haven
but now the 03 head is in the machine shop to be looked over and hopefully fixed up and injectors are going into a shop to be tested, if nothing else to be checked for resale one day
after much consideration a 261,000 mile swap is a bit risky just because you never know what might let go
i still want to make the 03 manual which will kill the 05 more then likely but it’s still an open idea of a build, I wasn’t expecting the wiring to be so finicky is such a sillly way, I figured it all worked off 12 volt for windows and lights and it would mate up nicely, if I have to I will swap more components but it will still be a 261,000 mile work truck, or I can have a 171,000 mile “somewhat abused” truck with a fresh engine and 271,000 mile work truck g56
i just hate the idea of sending a well cared for and maintened truck to be beat to death (the 05)
does anyone one have the wiring diagrams for the 05 and 03?
i looked in my Hanes book and it only shows a “typical” diagram for everything
05-08-2019, 05:33 AM
...Ben
