I have replaced my master cylinder, my calipers, front(x2) and rear hoses, and the wheel cylinders...

I started by installing everything but the master... then I bench bled the master cylinder and installed it... then I pump bled the brakes (with the batteries disconnected so I would trip the abs) starting farthest to closest... once I was all done and getting nothing but clear fluid at all four corners, i went to test it out... this is where it gets weird...

Once again, the brake is way too spongy (so I'm guessing I missed some air somewhere), so I pump it once or twice and it gets ROCK HARD... and then the brakes lock up and WON'T release... well, I put the truck in park and set there a minute, then the brakes release and I can go again... but the brakes are all spongy again... ***(!!!) is going on???

The only 2 parts I havn't replaced are the ABS valve and the other valve that sits between the master cylinder and the ABS valve... what the hell is that thing anyway??? Is it this mystical shutoff valve I keep hearing about??? Should I just throw more money at it ??? For the $300 I've already thrown away I might as well replace everything... This is really ticking me off... all because some jerkwad put power steering fluid in my master cylinder... I think we need to form a lynchmob and go track this puts down... if any of ya'll live near katy texas... dont' ever let the people at katy auto care "top of your fluids for free"... when you're getting a wheel alignment. I am so mad I could spit fire!!!

Anyway... if anyone has any ideas... I'm could use a little encouragement...

Johnny

 

I used a compressor powered vacuum bleeder to purge and change the old brake fluid on my truck.
One man operation, and completely changes all the fluid.

It was around $130 from Sears online store.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...=brake+bleeder

If you were local, I'd let you use it.

 

Yeah... I don't have that kind of cash to throw at a tool I'm only going to use once every 3 years... But thanks for the advice...

Here's what going on with it now... I got the rear brakes pulled back apart because it felt like they weren't working at all... well, everything looked OK, but I found something binding... when I put it all back together it looked fine and this time they adjusted exactly the same... prior install one adjusted 20 full turns and the other side only 5... well... I do the old back up and jam em on to adjust em routine.. and it actually WORKS this time.. CLICK CLICK is all I heard and they stopped me like I caught all three wires on the carrier deck... great I thouht... Went to go forward... no problems.... jammed them on in the forward direction and evrything worked good... except that now my rear brakes lock up and skid... not supposed to do that if I have ABS (or as i call it... "A-Buncha-BS")... And when I let off I can't move.. the brakes are locked on... I pump them one time and then I can go forward... so the lock-out valve has tripped and when I pump it it resets... well, it does this everytime I go into hard braking... of course it brakes hard enough to throw me through the windshield now, but it shouldn't lock up... I'm guessing I need to back down on the rears just a touch... I'm also guessing that the abs and lock-out valves are eaten up inside from the fluid contamination that started all of this... so I'll drive up to NAPA and get those on order... (YEAH!! I get to throw more money into my 15 year old truck... SWEET!!!).

ANYWAY... what did I walk away from this with... if you have super WONKY brakes... the first thing to look at is everything... and apparently with the new wheel cylinders (I did the 30mm GM cylinder "upgrade") if the rear brakes aren't tweaked just right, they'll throw off you lock-out valve and it'll go crazy the second you step on the brakes.

What else have I learned boys and girls??? ... buy a ford... in 1997 they had 4 wheel disc brakes on their half ton trucks and in 1998 ALL of their trucks had them... NOW how do I shoe-horn a cummins 12V into an f-150... ah, the real fun begins... MUHAHAHAHA

 

This is a little off but let me throw it out there. Wife's Honda would drive me nuts at brake time. Not exactly what you're describing but still a headache. The problem was that I also had to bleed the ABS unit, separate procedure from the brakes. Once I got it right everything else worked OK.

 

Yeah... but on mine the only way to do that is to crack the line... no bleeder screw... it's a pain in the butt... I actually had to bleed the master cylinder on the bench... then bleed it a little bit on the truck... then bleed the proportioning/lockout valve inline with the abs... then the abs... then each wheel from right rear to left front... lots of fun...

I suspect there may be air still trapped in there... I'm going to fool with it some more tomorow... Just been at it for 10 hours two days in a row... starting to get me irked...

Thanks for lookin out bro... any input is always welcome with me... (show me an engineer that doesn't like criticism and I'll show you an engineer that builds crappy designs...lol)

Johnny

 

I wonder if you could rent a pressure bleeder from someone in your area?

 

Well,
I went back after a good nights sleep, this time with a decent helper (family is better than anything in this world) and did one more top to bottom bleed session... Gravity bled the whole system for 15 minutes... nothing but clean fluid... did a presurized ( with the pedal held down) bleed of the upper end... No air in the master cylinder, no air in the preportioning/lockout valve, no air in the abs valve... Did a 4 wheel bleed starting rear passenger side... Got clean fluid, but decided to hit it a few times just in case (it is the longest line in the truck, so why not check the whol ething... well, on the 2nd third and fourth tries, got a bunch of contaminated fluid... it was dark and airiated... on the next 2 bleeds it was clean.. so I moved to the next wheel, etc... all of them where clean for three consecutive bleeds... got in, and test drove it... left rear wheel locks up hard, and on the first run it locked up the rear brakes and threw the lockout valve... pumped it once and it cleared... did a hard backup and the brakes adjusted... so now both sides are locking up but the left rear is way harder than the right... went under with my trusty adjuster spoon and loosened the star wheel a good full turn (4 full rotations with the spoon)... now they both lock up under hard braking, but I can feel the pedal pulsing... so the abs IS working... and the skid only lasts for about 1 foot now then the truck comes to a halt and NO sideways movement... YEAH!!! I figure in a couple hundred miles it'll wear down the new shoes enough that they dont' lock up anymore and the brakes will still be AMAZING!!!

Here's what I walk away from this with...
(1) NEVER let anyone top of your fluids but you!!! It is so easy for even an experienced machanic (this guy did the most amazing alignmnet on my truck - but it may have been another mechanic in this garage that did the fluids... I dont' know) to screw up. And it will cost you around $200-$400 to fix this ... WOW!!! That was my money for my new rear tires... GONE!!!
(2) Hakam's Razor is absolute... when faced with an obvious answer or a convuluted one... the obvious answer IS the answer... In my case, tainted fluid and air hiding in my brake lines, and improperly adjusted rear brakes cusing the fornt brakes to work for 1005 of the system and overload it (tripping the lockut valve)...
(3) the ultimate cause of all my misery was tainted fluid, a busted rear wheel cylinder (probably from the tainted fluid) and the original master cylinder (which was still working, but the top seal was deformed)... and all this was repaired with a total system overhaul and proper adjustment of the rear brakes and proper bleeding of the entire system from start to finish ... and performing that task 3 days in a row (I guess there are some places where air and garbage can hide in the lines, so you have to keep doing it over and again).
(4) Finally... we have some awesome people on here who are willing to help you out... if not with the best tech advice, at least with a nice "go gettum" pat on the back... thanks for all the help I received. This one really had me scratching my head...

Johnny
<= me enjoying the rest of my day in the airconditioning

 

Sooooo, why not take it back to the shop that messed it up and let them take care of the cost and headache?
I realize that you might not be comfortable letting the same place that effed it up put their hands on it again, but you said it was a good shop other than this one event. Mistakes like this, while unacceptable, do happen occasionally to even the best mechanics.
I would think that a shop worth its salt would be more than willing to make it right.