24 Valve Engine and Drivetrain Discuss the 24 Valve engine and drivetrain here. No non-drivetrain discussions please. NO HIGH PERFORMANCE DISCUSSION!

New to this Diesel thing

Old Jun 9, 2013 | 08:06 PM
  #1  
HK 45 Nut's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
New to this Diesel thing

As stated in title. I am an aircraft mech but have been turning wrenches since I was 13. I use to drive OTR but I had Detroit's and Cat's in all my trucks.

I just got a 2000 Dodge 3500 with 230,000 miles for FREE. DOES not run, needs tires batteries and a front bumper.

It will fire with some help but that is all. I will be checking fuel pressures this coming weekend. I am thinking it is the injector pump since I purged the pressure from the fuel filter and it sounds like an electric pump kicks in and charges it.

Any ideas on things to check would be GREAT.
Reply
Old Jun 9, 2013 | 08:51 PM
  #2  
jrs_dodge_diesel's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 40
From: League City, TX
Welcome to DTR!

Try this trick to prime the fuel system, as it sounds like it is airbound. "Bump" the starter, that is, engage the starter for a split second and then release the key so the truck stays on. The ECM will then run the lift pump for approximately 25 seconds. I would do that three times. That should purge all of the air out of the lift pump, fuel lines, and the inlet of the injection pump.

To start, crank the starter for 10 seconds (maximum), pause for at least 1 minute between cranks to prevent overheating the starter motor. It should start after 3 or 4 crank cycles. If it does not, then crack open 3 injector lines where they enter the cylinder head. You only need three cylinders firing to make these engines run. After you crack the lines, repeat the crank cycles until it runs and then tighten the injector line fittings again. I would not tighten them while it is running as the fuel pressure in those lines is normally around 4,000 PSI.

One word of caution, don't ever use starting fluid. Our engines do not use glow plugs in the cylinders. Instead they use two big grid heaters in the intake manifold. The starting fluid can ignite in the intake before it even reaches the cylinders.

Hope this helps get her running.
Reply
Old Jun 9, 2013 | 09:56 PM
  #3  
torquefan's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,449
Likes: 47
From: Calgary, Alberta
Good advice above. One thing to add: even though you can hear the lift pump working, it doesn't mean that it's actually pumping anything. It's very common for them to stop working and still sound like they are pumping. Test it with a fuel pressure gauge, or at the very least, open the water drain while the pump is operating and make sure it shoots a stream of fuel out.
Reply
Old Jun 10, 2013 | 06:35 PM
  #4  
HK 45 Nut's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Well even if the injection pump is out I will be upgrading the lift pump, I'm just not sure what way to go on it. I will be using the truck to haul a 33 foot trailer, a 20 foot toy box or a 3 place horse trailer. Not really needing HI Performance but I do not want the kids or my better half to worry when they are using it to haul the horses for a barrel race.
Reply
Old Jun 10, 2013 | 08:03 PM
  #5  
jrs_dodge_diesel's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 40
From: League City, TX
For a lift pump I bought a FASS DDRP pump. Its a direct drop in replacement, thats based on a gerotor design. It's a positive displacement pump. The OEM lift pump does not have a good reputation, my truck had two of those before the DDRP. My fuel pressure and flow have been solid since. I bought mine right here at the DTR store.

The injection pump only requires 12 volts and fuel to start and idle the truck. The ECM comes online after the truck is running and then runs the truck electronically.

Were you able to get yours running?
Reply
Old Jun 16, 2013 | 05:04 PM
  #6  
HK 45 Nut's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
OK tried to bleed air out of the #3 injector line and nothing came out. Tried about 5 times. I did pull codes, all were pending and set. SNAP-ON did not come through on fuel pressure gauges for me, so I have no idea on fuel PSI.
P0237
0253
1689
1688
Reply
Old Jun 16, 2013 | 05:46 PM
  #7  
Busboy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,901
Likes: 37
From: On the Farm, Manitoba
After bleeding using the LP pump crack open 3 lines at the injectors, 1,2 and 4 is usual as they are easiest to get at, crank the engine until fuel starts to show and the engine will start to fire,tighten up the lines and it will smooth out. LP fuel pressure is 10 to 20 psi depending on what kind of LP pump you have so almost any gauge could be used. There is a schrader test port on the injector pump you can hook into. Is the fuel fresh if not perhaps you have algae growing in the tank, might also want to pull the fuel filter for a look and change the filter.
Reply
Old Jun 16, 2013 | 11:02 PM
  #8  
johnh's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,053
Likes: 29
From: lyman, utah
Originally Posted by HK 45 Nut
OK tried to bleed air out of the #3 injector line and nothing came out. Tried about 5 times. I did pull codes, all were pending and set. SNAP-ON did not come through on fuel pressure gauges for me, so I have no idea on fuel PSI.
P0237
0253
1689
1688
the injector pump electronics are toast
Reply
Old Jun 17, 2013 | 06:46 AM
  #9  
jrs_dodge_diesel's Avatar
Administrator
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 40
From: League City, TX
I concur, your injection pump is very likely dead. Some more info:

Originally Posted by Blue Chip Diesel
In my experience the 216 code is not a “Death Code” as some people say. It only tells you the Injection Pump can’t attain full timing advance to provide good fuel mileage and power. If this is the ONLY code and you don’t have any drivability issues, the VP44 does not need to be replaced, and most likely will not put you on the side of the road. If you DO have the 216 code you should check your Lift Pump pressure UNDER LOAD as Lift Pump pressure is what moves the timing piston and advances timing, so if Lift Pump pressure is low, that may be the cause of the 216 code. If the pressure is good, then the code means the housing of the Injection Pump is worn out, which all by itself, still isn’t a good enough reason to replace it, in my mind.

If the engine won’t start, AND YOU HAVEN’T OPENED ANY FUEL LINES OR REPLACED THE FUEL FILTER SINCE IT LAST RAN, and you have either or both a 1688 or 1689 code, the truck will never start until you replace the injection pump, 99% of the time. If you want to be 100% sure of your diagnosis, follow the No Start diagnosis below. These codes indicate either a serious internal mechanical failure, such as a seized rotor, or that the computer on the top of the Injection Pump is not communicating with the ECM, thereby turning on the high pressure fuel to the injectors. Other circumstances like stray RF (radio interference) can set these codes and therefore confuse or misdirect an accurate diagnosis, so this is where symptoms have more merit than just codes, when diagnosing this fuel system. Code 1693 only means there is at least one code in the other computer, the PCM, which has NOTHING to do with the fuel system or fuel system drivability problems. Sometimes an automatic transmission can cause a drivability issue and appear to be a fuel system issue. In this case codes in the ECM and the PCM should be noted, and COMBINED with the drivability SYMPTOMS and a phone call to me, I can help you differentiate and diagnose the problem. To come up with an accurate diagnosis of this fuel system sometimes, you have to prove all the other components that could cause your problem are indeed good, and therefore NOT the cause of your problem. After you have done that, you have no choice but to condemn the Injection Pump.

Code 123 is truly rare and usually means an ECM problem. 234 means the MAP signal voltage is too high. 237 means the MAP signal voltage is too low. 251 and 253 means the fuel solenoid is not working correctly and when associated with a drivability issue is a very compelling reason to replace the VP44. Code 1690 or 336 indicates a signal issue with the Crankshaft Position Sensor, and when associated with a drivability problem, necessitates replacement.
Here's a link to the Blue Chip Diesel site. They have a great read on the 24 Valve engines fuel system.

http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/vp44diagnostichelp.html
Reply
Old Jun 17, 2013 | 05:53 PM
  #10  
HK 45 Nut's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Ya I am going to get a new one and lift pump in the next month or so. I have to get a new piston and sleeve for one of my toys.
Reply
Old Jul 15, 2013 | 08:20 PM
  #11  
HK 45 Nut's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Sorry about not getting back in a while. It finally cooled down this past weekend. I have fuel at the injector pump but not past it, the pressure is not the greatest so I am thinking the lift pump had started to fail and that took out the injector pump. I just want to THANK EVERYONE FOR THERE HELP. I will be getting the FASS pump in a few weeks and get that on, then do the injector pump. Its a slow process since I am 150 miles from the truck.
Reply
Old Jul 15, 2013 | 08:30 PM
  #12  
dkenny's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 448
Likes: 2
but do you voltage at the injector pump..look up blue chip diesel for VP44 diagnostics..if you don't have voltage at the injector pump..the problem might not be the pump..read thread about hard starting..
been there..
easy test.
does the lift pump turn on as soon as the key hit the start position?
no..hum not good..
does bumping the starter cause it to run..every time? it should..
does the wait-to-start light blink? not just on then off..but on and off several times..hum..think ECM..not injector pump..for now..not saying the VP44 is good..just some to check into..yep I just replace my ECM..most time it wouldn't start..but would crank..but had strange lift pump operation..code reader wouldn't talk to the ECM..but it would the PCM..

have you clean the grounds?

spending 1000-1500 on a gamble..wouldn't you like to rule out other things first..I know I tried..then spent $800..for an ECM..but to worked out.

-dkenny
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
440a-body
1st Gen. Ram - All Topics
3
Mar 28, 2009 05:52 AM
Crossy's son
General Diesel Discussion
44
Aug 18, 2008 06:34 PM
muddindodge
12 Valve Engine and Drivetrain
16
Dec 31, 2007 05:45 AM
sgrooms
24 Valve Engine and Drivetrain
10
Jan 23, 2004 04:08 PM
FiverBob
Other
19
May 7, 2003 08:22 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04 PM.