99 guy

2 weeks ago I purchased a 99 dually with the 5.9 cummins. Yes I new about all the lift pump problems from doing research on forums during the last month. Well after driving the truck 2 weeks (great truck!) I ran it through my farm shop for service and filters. Guess what, after installing the fuel filter it was no surprise to find the 12v. lift pump to be bad, a dead duck. I called the local dealer to see if he could warranty the pump, yes but I would have to bring it in, couldn’t let me do the work. Oh, 87k on the truck. He explained the warranty problem would need diagnosed (I already explained the problem to him thoroughly) and any work done by skilled technicians ( I work on diesels nearly every day). Oh, well, I thought if they were paying for the pump, OK. <br><br>Using an “old Indian trick” I managed to get the truck primed, running and back to the dealer so I wouldn’t have to pay his “tow charge”. He calls me tonight and explains there is nothing wrong with the truck, they “diagnosed” it, drove it, just hunkey dorey, he says. I asked what the low side fuel pressure was, he couldn’t say. I explained his diagnostic wouldn’t show a bad lift pump until the injection pump goes bye bye. I asked him if I came there, uncoupled the output line and energized the pump and it pumped no fuel, would he believe me then????? He has “trained diesel mechanics” he told me.<br><br>Well, I’m going there, I have to wait for Friday now, holiday you know. I intend to show this gentleman that the pump is totally dysfunctional, it should take me all of 5 minutes or less, with out 5 million dollars worth of “diagnostic” equipment that I wouldn’t trust him with any how. Trouble is, I don’t think I would trust this dealership to do the work at all now.<br><br>Any suggestions out there ?????<br>

Shovelhead

Welcome '99 guy,
Do like I did, go to Cummins, pick up a lift pump, install it yourself, and know the job was done correctly the first time.
The $116 was money well-spent for my piece of mind.
'99 currently with 40,000 miles of smiles.

yz

I have a question for all you 24v guys who have had trouble with you Vp44 and lift pump. Honestly how well have you guys kepted up on changing the fuel filter? Not that I don't believe that you guy don't take care of your truck or anything. Just wondering. -Anthony

Shovelhead

My fuel filter (which is located after the pump : BTW) was changed at 5,000 mile intervals as spec'ed, even though no drop in pressure was indicated.
With my mechanical fuel pressure guage I caught the slow drop in pressures over a period of weeks until I had 10psi at idle, 6psi WOT.
I then picked up a new pump at Cummins, and now I see 15psi at idle, 13psi at WOT.

yz

hmmmmmm. I had heard from a diesel mech. that he believed that the problem might be fuel filter not being changed enough. I did not really believe him just wondered. He told me it took more then 40 psi to push even extremely small amount of water there the filter. He said people most likely don't change filters enough so the filter gets filled with crap and strains the fuel system try to pull fuel through. but I just read the article on dodgeram.org and had good info on there. I just hope to see a fix for these pumps. I wonder if the pumps will be better on the 03's. we shall see I guess -Anthony<br>

99 guy

Like I said, just bought the truck used, 87k. Filter was dirty but like shovelhead pointed out, filter is on the pressure side of the pump. In my case there was no significant loss of performance with both a dead lift pump and a filter in need of replacement. --- Just a couple of observations. ---<br>

99 guy

Saw your note after I posted, yz. My local Cummins shop showed me the current replacement (should have taken it home rather than hope the Dodge ******* would fix it), anyway they have changed the pump, that may be what's on your 03.

Shovelhead

'99 Guy, the problem lies in the fact that the injection pump can often times draw enough fuel to keep the Cummins Hummin',so the failure of the lift pump is not noticed but because the injection pump is also cooled by the normally excess fuel provided by the lift pump it slowly self destructs.
A fuel pressure guage is your best buddy with a 24 valve.

99 guy

Shovelhead, yep, soon as I get the truck back a fp gauge is going on. I wonder how many injection pumps this dealer has damaged by thinking because it still runs, it's ok!

Shovelhead

[quote author=99 guy link=board=4;threadid=9035;start=0#86852 date=1041397308]
I wonder how many injection pumps this dealer has damaged by thinking because it still runs, it's ok!
[/quote]

Quite a few I imagine. :
Sad part is your dealer isn't unique.

Pa outlaw

i have a 01 dually quad 4 wheel drive with 87k on it and have an appointment friday for lift pump under warranty,first question from service writer was has the filter been changed,my reply,what do you think im stupid? mine is changed every 4000 miles with the oil everytime,then he asked how i know my pump was bad,hmmm, i said well i work in a auto repair garage and work on dodge diesels 1 out of every 3 weeks,he said well what is the problem,i said no fuel preasure,he said well you know low preasure does not mean its bad all the time, i said well how about 0 preasure,and at wot it goes in the negative 0 s,then he went on to say is the gauge working, i said did one before mine one after mine worked on those trucks fine,said he would have his techs check it out tommorrow,my friend works there so i will be having him do it,so they scheduled him to do it friday,amazing how much more we know then they do, most of yous that replaced the lift pumps did you loose alot of fuel milage? just hope you get taken care of friday,even if you have to stand over thier shoulder ;D

Kimrey

I just went through the same problem I had the mechanic come up front and explained to him what was going on. The mechanic looked at my gauge and said yep bad pump. So then the service writer agreed to replace it. They must think that everybody is stupid. Now, I can understand if I walked in wearing a suit, I would think this guy doesen't know anything about trucks ( city boy ) no offence to anyone. But when someone would walk in driving a truck in blue jeans and sounds like he knows what were talking about, you would think they would give you some respect :<br><br>Kimrey

admin

[quote author=yz link=board=4;threadid=9035;start=0#86835 date=1041394659]<br>I have a question for all you 24v guys who have had trouble with you Vp44 and lift pump. Honestly how well have you guys kepted up on changing the fuel filter? Not that I don't believe that you guy don't take care of your truck or anything. Just wondering. -Anthony<br>[/quote]<br><br>I had changed my fuel filter every 6 to 10k miles or so, approximately. I lost my injection pump at 85k, but never lost the lift pump even though right now, it's 13psi idle, and 8psi wot. The new injection pump is working well, but I'm installing a self regulating pusher in the near future anyway.

dodgeram

I discovered my lift pump was bad when I put my gauges on...<br><br>after the ordeal I just went through the day before getting my cold weather flash done, I just paid for the pump out of pocket and changed it myself<br><br>you could walk into a dealer with the guage reading 0 at idle and I'm sure they'd still look at you and say &quot;well how do you know it's a bad pump...it still runs ok&quot;<br><br>

phox_mulder

I guess I should feel lucky.<br><br>Took my truck in, with 4,000 on the odometer, with a bad idle, sounded like it was missing.<br><br>The resident diesel mechanic was standing by the service writer and when I described it, they both said lift pump at the same time.<br><br>They hooked up a guage and the lift pump was better than perfect. Hooked it up to the computer and no codes were there.<br>They said they couldn't find anything so I took it home.<br><br>Week later it had been getting increasingly worse so I took it back. It almost died as the service writer pulled it into the bay, he described it as &quot;surging&quot;.<br>Come to find out, that is the magic word to get them to take you seriously regarding fueling problems.<br><br>I guess &quot;STAR&quot;, the number they call to authorize service, has a list of magic words to describe problems, and if those words are spoken by the customer then the service guys seem more accomodating.<br><br>They took pressure readings again, still more than fine, then put the VP44 on the &quot;test stand&quot; and found that it was bad.<br>Replaced under warranty, since I have yet to start any BOMBing of my truck.<br><br>I'm sure that if I had a pierced pump wire then I'd be out a nice chunk of change.<br>(they did forget to put the &quot;void&quot; stickers back on the connections though, hopefully they kept a record of this ;D )<br><br>We need someone with Dodge connections to get us a list of the magic STAR words.<br>Luke?<br><br>Good luck,<br><br>phox