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I think I'm being lied to...

Old 08-27-2008, 06:58 PM
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I think I'm being lied to...

Okay, so recently I had some problems with my truck and although I won't go into detail, I ended up getting a new IP, Injectors and a new block/pistons/etc.

After having the new engine installed, the truck ran great except it was losing prime after sitting for a while. Then came a very slight knock that quickly turned into a very loud knock. Truck ran smooth and great and only white smoked on start up after losing prime. I took my truck to cummins and they fixed the losing prime issue (piece of rotted hose) and determined that the knock was coming from the #6 cylinder. Due to warranty issues they couldn't tear the engine down but they were able to take the oil pan off and determine that the #6 piston was scored. Now I have to have the engine shipped to the people I got it from to have it fixed.

Engine arrives at shop for warranty repair, they are trying everything they can to get out of it, claiming fuel problems from the day I called them before they ever saw the engine. They say the heat tabs on the block show that it has gotten hot (never while I was driving it, I kept a close eye on EOT and EGT's. EOT never over 195 and EGT's barely peaked over 1100 pulling my fifth wheel up a hill). In their last ditch effort to try to find a reason it's "my fault" they decided to have these injectors pop tested (After the cummins tech told them he'd already pop tested them) and now they are trying to claim that I have a bad injector thats overfueling.

I'm pretty sure they are lying to me, I'll find out tomorrow because they claim they labeled each injector as to what cylinder they came from and they don't know that cummins swapped the #6 injector with another cylinder. My question is, how likely is it that one injector overfueling would cause pretty severe piston damage and heat up the block without white smoke and the truck running extremely smooth? I'd think that if an injector was overfueling that badly, the truck would run rough and white smoke like crazy?

Opinions?
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:53 PM
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When was the last time anybody ever trusted someone who had to fess up to a warranty service????
I go by the rule (unless you've known them and dealt with them for years and years without problems) "if their mouth is moving they are lying".
I hate to say that. but I was glad to find this site a few years back, because they've saved me time and money and given me knowledge that I believe dodge would rather me not ever know.
OK<
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:00 PM
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That sucks where did you get the engine from if you don't mind me asking. Mayble this will give them some bad publicity or good depending on weather or not they waranty your engine.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:34 PM
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I doubt you had a new injector that was so horribly bad that it cooked your #6 cyc and never showed any tell tales signs before doing so! It sounds like you drove the truck conservatively and paid close attention to the gauges during the break in time.
Lets see what this shop claims after they get "Their pop test analysis" Especially after your cummins shop swapped the injectors! Hopefully you have this in a written work order from cummins. After you get the report back from the mickey mouse shop in writing claiming a bad injector, file fraud charges on them! It's time for bad shops to pay imho. Good luck bro
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:47 AM
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Not quit familiar yet with oil circulation system, but how does the #6 cylinder wall oil it self, how does a piston score itself on the skirt(if that was the indication), and do you think that it is a rod knocking on #6 too?

Opinion: I'm thinking it is lack of oil, not a hot spot from overfueling. I'd want to see the all the parts on tear down, and then take pictures to build my case.
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:25 AM
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Wait a minute. In your first post, I believe you said new injectors were installed as part of the probablly extremelly high repair job done. Their injectors, their porblem........................................... .
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rage_blue View Post
That sucks where did you get the engine from if you don't mind me asking. Mayble this will give them some bad publicity or good depending on weather or not they waranty your engine.
The engine came a place called South Houston Engines in well, South Houston Texas.

They did not warranty the engine. They told me that the bad injector came from the number 6 cylinder. When I told them that cummins swapped the #6 injector with a different cylinder they didn't have much to say, but still refused warranty. I told them to ship everything back to cummins and I'll settle up with them in court. I told cummins to go completely through the engine and make sure everything is perfect. Now it's time to find a good civil attorney in Houston and get the ball rolling on that...
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dozer12216 View Post
Wait a minute. In your first post, I believe you said new injectors were installed as part of the probablly extremelly high repair job done. Their injectors, their porblem........................................... .
No, the new injectors were installed by a dodge dealer in Gallup New Mexico. Thats why they were trying to use the injectors to deny warranty repairs. They kind of screwed themselves though when they assumed the injector in the bad cylinder was the same one that had been there all along. I informed cummins of my intent to file a lawsuit and they are documenting everything as thoroughly as possible for me.
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:18 PM
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This type of failure is far more likely from oil starvation than from the injector failure. Injectors are commonly cited just because they are a "usual suspect" that's a convenient explanation for a mechanic that lacks either the persistence or the skill to fully troubleshoot the problem.

If the oil flow through the piston cooling nozzle (PCN) is crucial, and if this nozzle is obstructed or absent, the cylinder bore *will* score when under load-- you can bank on it.

I'd put money on the assembly/repair work being shoddily done, and this is the cause of your failure. The PCN was probably either not installed, improperly installed, or jarred loose or bent upon installation.

Aside from the PCN, it's possible that the oil drilling in the crankshaft was obstructed with debris. Not likely though, because the engine would spin a bearing before it would score the cylinder.

JMO
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:06 AM
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If you (or the rebuilder) have ever put a Fram oil filter on the engine, that could easily be the problem. They have RTV in them that can come loose, and eventually plug the #6 cooling nozzle.
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Old 08-29-2008, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by WestTN View Post
If you (or the rebuilder) have ever put a Fram oil filter on the engine, that could easily be the problem. They have RTV in them that can come loose, and eventually plug the #6 cooling nozzle.
The engine had less than 2,000 miles on it and the oil was changed at 500 miles, so I doubt any oil filter would be the problem. I don't know why the engine failed, but I do know my injectors were not the reason!
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:07 PM
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Was a FRAM ever on it?
Cummins will NOT warantee a motor with Frams. They can find evidence too!
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:09 PM
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Wonder how many engines Fram has had to pay for?
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:23 PM
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Probably none.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by j-fox View Post
Was a FRAM ever on it?
Cummins will NOT warantee a motor with Frams. They can find evidence too!
This is true - I've witnessed two Fram-engine failures in two different Dodge dealer's shops, and that's just been when I've been in for service. Seems this engine had a rash of poorly constructed Fram filters, which could still be out there. Never heard of this problem with other engines.

That being said, this whole problem may be a good testimony to the idea of using reputable, known shops for major work you're having done, if you are unable or not desiring to perform it yourself. Did you personally have experance with this shop previously? I hope there's a chance of recourse without involving a court case. Perhaps in the future your Cummins dealer, even with a higher price, may be a better place for your service? Best of luck getting this mess sorted out...
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