Dodges new fix for transfer pump
02-10-2007, 05:28 PM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Modesto Ca
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have had new vp and intake pump installed at 83k by dc . i am now at 179k and will have had the new improved flows more less pressure not desinged well pump out of the tank once already for pressure related problems and will be removing it again today . it seams to me the problems continue . not to down ply the holley fass or other pumps but i have ordered a pain free fuel delivery kit from summit. part #SUM-PUMPKIT7A AND WILL BE INSTALLING UPON ARIVAL COST OF KIT 220.00 give or take + tax .flows 140 gph to solve vp heat issues at a max of 14 ps includes all mounting hardware and braided hose think this is the best answer for me since intanke pump in my opinion iss junk .
and the worst thing is im good friends with the ownerof the local dc dealer lol.
and the worst thing is im good friends with the ownerof the local dc dealer lol.
02-10-2007, 06:29 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Modesto Ca
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no im in central ca i do although run biofuel partime in my truck just noticed the new it pump has problems plugging and not getting the flow into canister at below half situation so being a racer i have opted to install a fuel cell style siphon line and pump to solve my issues . no tow bill tomany trailers and trucks close
02-10-2007, 11:56 PM
#34
Registered User
JBody, he is in the middle of nowhere, and I am about 650 miles northwest of that.
This is the reason I went with the Glacier kit on my truck. I went through 9 stock ( carter style ) lift pumps on my truck, the last one actually made it 12 months and 27 days. So, since it was my dime and my time, I went with something that works. Haven't had any trouble so far, and time will tell, have had it in there for 8 months now. Works like a dream from +30C down to -60C. As was mentioned earlier, there is no room in my life for large tow bills, or downtime. The truck HAS to work every day. Being a mobile mechanic, it helps if you are mobile, as well, it doesn't bode well for business if your truck is broken down. Who hires a guy whose truck won't run??? HAH
Anyway, good luck with any and all "fixes" for the stock 'trash' pumps
This is the reason I went with the Glacier kit on my truck. I went through 9 stock ( carter style ) lift pumps on my truck, the last one actually made it 12 months and 27 days. So, since it was my dime and my time, I went with something that works. Haven't had any trouble so far, and time will tell, have had it in there for 8 months now. Works like a dream from +30C down to -60C. As was mentioned earlier, there is no room in my life for large tow bills, or downtime. The truck HAS to work every day. Being a mobile mechanic, it helps if you are mobile, as well, it doesn't bode well for business if your truck is broken down. Who hires a guy whose truck won't run??? HAH
Anyway, good luck with any and all "fixes" for the stock 'trash' pumps
02-11-2007, 01:44 AM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fort Nel$on
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol pind at least you guys have a wallmart and a mcdonalds.. we have to drive 4 hours for that kinda luxury!
i think i'm gonna order the fass system here in 2 weeks instead of putting in that in tank fix like i was gonna though after reading all this.
i think i'm gonna order the fass system here in 2 weeks instead of putting in that in tank fix like i was gonna though after reading all this.
02-11-2007, 11:57 AM
#36
Registered User
HAHAHAHHAH yeah Intake, I don't shop at walmart, and have never eaten mcdonalds version of "food" so I guess I don't know what I'm missing.
I went with the Glacier Diesel Setup on my truck, as stated, because it has to work every day. And most areas I go to work in, tow trucks won't go anyway.
I am not going to knock FASS, as there are a lot of them out there that work just fine. That being said, I have had problems with a few units that I have installed for other people. Mostly just goofy little stuff, like having to tap it with something to get the pump motor spinning, etc. Mostly winter related stuff too. That steered me away from that particular system. I am sure they have thousands of units out there that perform flawlessly, but I have not installed that many, and to have customers coming back to me asking why the lift pump isn't working, or why they have to tap it with a wrench to get it to work, or why their FP gauge is reading in the low single digits... That scares me. The last FASS I put in, Customer Supplied, was about 14 months back, so I would tend to think that these little issues have been resolved.
Good luck on whatever you choose to work with.
I went with the Glacier Diesel Setup on my truck, as stated, because it has to work every day. And most areas I go to work in, tow trucks won't go anyway.
I am not going to knock FASS, as there are a lot of them out there that work just fine. That being said, I have had problems with a few units that I have installed for other people. Mostly just goofy little stuff, like having to tap it with something to get the pump motor spinning, etc. Mostly winter related stuff too. That steered me away from that particular system. I am sure they have thousands of units out there that perform flawlessly, but I have not installed that many, and to have customers coming back to me asking why the lift pump isn't working, or why they have to tap it with a wrench to get it to work, or why their FP gauge is reading in the low single digits... That scares me. The last FASS I put in, Customer Supplied, was about 14 months back, so I would tend to think that these little issues have been resolved.
Good luck on whatever you choose to work with.
02-11-2007, 08:20 PM
#37
Registered User
02-12-2007, 07:40 AM
#38
Chapter President
I love pump debates, CTD NUT is very accurate in everything he's said that I can see........
positive displacement and non-positive displacement pumps are all that I'm aware of.......neither of which create pressure. Only flow. I've never seen a pump create pressure, I've seen loads create pressure, and the static load of actually flowing through the circuit.
I've worked 4 years in hydraulics so far.......I love it. So much more to learn.
positive displacement and non-positive displacement pumps are all that I'm aware of.......neither of which create pressure. Only flow. I've never seen a pump create pressure, I've seen loads create pressure, and the static load of actually flowing through the circuit.
I've worked 4 years in hydraulics so far.......I love it. So much more to learn.
Thank you for the correction....
The cetrifugal pump is a non-positive displacement pump (like the water pumps on our trucks) and not related to this discussion....my point in an earlier post was that that a positive displacement pump like the LP's in question could also have the discharge side shut off at which point you could claim only pressure was being produced (the analogy I do not agree with). How well the positive displacement pump deals with its discharge being 100% closed is another story! The debate was sliding slightly off topic anyway!
02-12-2007, 11:51 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Okotoks AB
Posts: 3,142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I follow you, where most go wrong in your guys' scenario.....with a positive displacement pump is you put a valve on the discharge and closed it with no relief......yes the pump would go boom. yes the pressure would skyrocket. but the pump is not creating that pressure..........the closed valve is creating the pressure........because that flow has no where to go pressure spikes, the pump cannot over come the load {closed valve} and the weakest link blows. usually the pump housing.
Now say you open that valve and is goes straight into a bucket, whats the pressure? Zero. because there is no load on the circuit = no pressure only flow.
as with all circuits pumps create flow the load & circuit create pressure. some guys just can't seem to wrap their heads around that sometimes.
but its all sort of off topic I guess........actually I don't even know what the original topic was...........
Now say you open that valve and is goes straight into a bucket, whats the pressure? Zero. because there is no load on the circuit = no pressure only flow.
as with all circuits pumps create flow the load & circuit create pressure. some guys just can't seem to wrap their heads around that sometimes.
but its all sort of off topic I guess........actually I don't even know what the original topic was...........
02-13-2007, 07:52 AM
#40
Registered User
here is a truly stupid question. Given the realities of pressure vs. flow.
How would a pump that puts out less pressure than the previous pump, manage to flow more through the same sized lines as the previous pump was using?
Now, I am not trashing anyone on this board. I am merely pointing out a question that I asked a "technician" at our local dealership. His response was that the intake pump was created as a high volume, low pressure pump. Volume being more important than pressure, for cooling of the VP44. I whole-heartedly agreed that more volume is definitely the answer to keeping the VP cool, however, back to the original question.
When you have a 3/8" line, lets say you flow 15 GPM at 15psi. Now, take that same sized line, and decrease the pressure to 10psi. you are now flowing 9.9 gpm give or take, unless my math is out to lunch. Reduce it to 8 psi, and now you are flowing 7.9 gpm give or take. The only way to increase volume is to either increase pressure, or increase the size of the line. Since they are maintaining the line size, and decreasing the pressure, there is no logical ( thanks Spock ) way that it will be " higher volume ".
With either larger lines, or a no-restriction situation, the numbers become somewhat muddied, but either way, lower pressure does not equal more volume per given size of hose/tubing/pipe in this situation.
Now, this is just food for thought, hopefully I didn't screw it up so badly as to confuse people. Make your own call on the in-tank conversion. Just remember the added work and cost when its time to do it again.
Good luck, and may the force be with you.
How would a pump that puts out less pressure than the previous pump, manage to flow more through the same sized lines as the previous pump was using?
Now, I am not trashing anyone on this board. I am merely pointing out a question that I asked a "technician" at our local dealership. His response was that the intake pump was created as a high volume, low pressure pump. Volume being more important than pressure, for cooling of the VP44. I whole-heartedly agreed that more volume is definitely the answer to keeping the VP cool, however, back to the original question.
When you have a 3/8" line, lets say you flow 15 GPM at 15psi. Now, take that same sized line, and decrease the pressure to 10psi. you are now flowing 9.9 gpm give or take, unless my math is out to lunch. Reduce it to 8 psi, and now you are flowing 7.9 gpm give or take. The only way to increase volume is to either increase pressure, or increase the size of the line. Since they are maintaining the line size, and decreasing the pressure, there is no logical ( thanks Spock ) way that it will be " higher volume ".
With either larger lines, or a no-restriction situation, the numbers become somewhat muddied, but either way, lower pressure does not equal more volume per given size of hose/tubing/pipe in this situation.
Now, this is just food for thought, hopefully I didn't screw it up so badly as to confuse people. Make your own call on the in-tank conversion. Just remember the added work and cost when its time to do it again.
Good luck, and may the force be with you.
Zero psi will equal zero gpm supply. Then the IP will take the full task of bringing fuel from the tank and that means start saving for a new one
02-13-2007, 08:19 AM
#41
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it can put out say 6 psi at 95 gpm (made up numbers) then it should hold that 6 psi anywhere from 1 - 95 gpm. But if it's max output is 6 psi at 10 gpm then at 11 gpm the pressure drops. The loss is from the volume output not the pressure output or line size (there are some frictional losses but in the 8 ft or so it's not overwhelming. IF (i don't know) the stock in tank is a high flow but lower psi pump then it would still be a good thing. BUT......
Zero psi will equal zero gpm supply. Then the IP will take the full task of bringing fuel from the tank and that means start saving for a new one
Zero psi will equal zero gpm supply. Then the IP will take the full task of bringing fuel from the tank and that means start saving for a new one
02-13-2007, 10:10 AM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey guys, I was wondering...I keep seeing references to the Holley Blue or Black pump..... Does anyone have a part number for these? I have been searching the net for either and can't seem to find them. Also, I have been searching for a fuel pressure tester to confirm my bad LP, but they all say they are NOT for diesels. Anyone know where or what brand I can buy for diesels? And where do I hook it up to to test? Thanks.
02-13-2007, 11:32 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sheldon, Iowa
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a new LP and VP44 put in my truck a mere hour after I bought it. I have the new in tank model also, at an idle it would run 7 psi, 4 at WOT. I put a home made 3/8 big line kit on. Now I get 9psi at idle and 7psi WOT. I would put on a big line kit and then decide if you feel comfortable with the pressures. Just my 2 cents
02-13-2007, 04:08 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The campaign pump from Cummins and the Vulcan kit seem to solve most peoples probelms. I run 12.5 at idle. 9 WOT. Many run more with the same set-up. I suspect you could run the same set-up with the GEN 3's. At $65 a pump and easy access to change it. I can live with that.
My condolences to those who line at 0 and below. That cold is hard, although our heat creates some issues.
I have not herad anything bad on the Cummins camapign pumps.
I do know that I feel better seeing adequate pressure to the VP44.
My condolences to those who line at 0 and below. That cold is hard, although our heat creates some issues.
I have not herad anything bad on the Cummins camapign pumps.
I do know that I feel better seeing adequate pressure to the VP44.
02-14-2007, 04:16 PM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Leon
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey guys, I was wondering...I keep seeing references to the Holley Blue or Black pump..... Does anyone have a part number for these? I have been searching the net for either and can't seem to find them. Also, I have been searching for a fuel pressure tester to confirm my bad LP, but they all say they are NOT for diesels. Anyone know where or what brand I can buy for diesels? And where do I hook it up to to test? Thanks.