colekicker

This ends up being simple. Pull out your original reciept. If you supposedly bought an engine with all the goodies like the ceramic coated pistons and that is not what is in the truck, you have a lot of leverage. There is one lesson to be learned here, always make sure you are getting what you pay for. Its a tough situation. For all the good SMs out there, there are a few that make a whole lot more noise that the praise from all the good ones.

BIGHEAD

John THANKS for your info. The name of the company is Cummins South. They have several locations in GA,SC, & now FL, & maybe more. I know anybody,whether it is an individual like myself or the Peterbuilt or Freightliner dealership, they buy their Cummins parts from this company. I guess you would call them a Distributor, just not sure on that. I would go somewhere else, but I think I need the people who made a mess out of this to fix it. They have great mechanics there who have been there for at least 8 years,since I started doing business with them. They have virtually no turnover which is a good sign to me. The Mechanics really are good guys & good at what they do. This SM is the problem. He has a shop foreman that is an excellent guy to talk & deal with. The problem is he has to work for the SM & cannot Divulge information to me that would undermind his boss, & I understand that.
The SM told me the RV275 engine was quite a superior motor to the 5.9 Dodge puts in our trucks. He TOLD me, didn't show it in writing, that the engine handled heat better because it had ceramic coated pistons,teflon coated rings, and just better workmanship from Cummins. He told me Dodge wanted a Cummins engine as cheap as they could get one, so they don't add any goodies on them. This SM also told me when I ordered the engine, that it would have the 275 injectors & valve cover, along with the 12 month 100K warranty. I didn't have any reason to doubt him, so I paid only a couple hundred extra dollars & got the RV motor. I now find out it doesn't have the ceramic coated pistons, it didn't come with the injectors, & he told me he assumed I wanted to keep my Dodge valve cover, so he put the Black Cummins cover on my core(which I never got to see). Now according to what the GM told me yesterday, the engine only had 6 months or 50K miles, if it was put in the right application. So, the SM lied to me & there is no other way to put it. I didn't know it at the time,except for the injectors, that he lied to me. I still didn't think at the time he had misled me. Now after seeing the motor with the head off, I at least know he lied to me about the pistons. The mechanic working on it did tell me he thought it probably had the teflon coated rings, but they didn't have the damaged one out yet to verify this. I at this point do not know what to do or accept as a feasible solution. The GMsaid he would eat the job, but he doesn't plan on eating all of it. Considering, I was misled from the jump on this, I don't feel like I should have to pay anything for the repairs, & I don't want to. However, I will pony up to some degree, & I am thinking in the 500 to 800 dollar range. I was told originally that Recon would probably do 75% of a 2500 dollar job, so that would leave me at 625 for my part. The piston is going to add a little more to it, so that is why I am open up to 800 bucks. I think that if they expect more than that of me, I may load my truck up & let someone else do the job, then let my attorney do his. This may seem radical or seven stupid to some, but I am not willing to be ripped off by this outfit anymore. Does anyone know of another source buying a head for these engines. I wouldn't mind at this point putting one on that helped me in the way of gaining some HP depending on the cost. I don't want to get radical with the head if I go down that road, just a little more HP.Anyone with ideas on other places to buy a head, please let me know. Thanks

BIGHEAD

Well I heard back from the GM today. He gave me 2 options that were definetly a step in the right direction. He told me that he had figured up the cost of replacing my head, the piston, & all required gaskets,plus the oil vacuum pump & power steering pump along with the bracket that supports them & the labor that came to 2800 & change. He told me 800 of that was Labor. He told me the parts price were slashed big time to help resolve the matter. He also offered me a complete Long Block that was recently rebuilt completely for a Hitachi loader or something. He said it was rated at 205 HP but wasn't sure of the torque rating. He said it did not matter what the HP or torque was that the 5.9 long bolck assembly was the same build no matter what the application was. He said the injectors,fuel pump timing,turbo, etc was what made the difference in all the various HP & torque ranges for different applications. He said this motor would perform just as good as mine or any other 5.9 that was put in it. Does any of you guys who really know this agree with this? It sure seems weird that so many different applications would use the identical long block. Why are there different kinds of pistons & so forth, if they are all the same? This engine was rebuilt, put in the machine & the rear seal started leaking . They pulled it back out & put everything new in it except the crank. It has new pistons,cam shaft,head, etc. with 272 hours on it, & he equated that to about 10,000 miles. He offered to give me the engine & let someone else put it in. He said his company would not be working on any more Dodge trucks. He told me that he had my hood put back on my truck & all the loose parts tied up & rolled it back outside. He doesn't want to work on it. I called the one person I would trust to put everything back together & he figured around 2 grand in labor which I thought was totally ridiculous, since the GM figured 800 bucks labor. He told me he would rather take the engine & hew would swap it for 1500 bucks. I think he is way high & don't like the idea either that he will have one his mechanics, who I don't know his work, doing the job & not himself. I am to call the GM back in the morning 7 give him my decision. I want Cummins to fix it since they already have it apart. I was considering offering to pay the 800 bucks labor & see if he would complete the job for me. He has 3 very talented mechanics that can put it back together blindfolded. I trust them & that is what is important to me. The GM just doesn't want to fool with it. He told me he always seems to have problems with Dodge customers trucks for one reason or another. He said Cummins doesn't allow them enough warranty time to do the jobs, so it isn't worth it when they can work on big trucks,buses, & RV's.
My question to you guys is what would you do? Take the engine that is an industrial engine & it comes with NO guarantees, or warranty, or take all the new parts & have my engine put back together. If I take the parts I am getting the vacuum pump & new power steering pump too, which I won't get with the motor. He is going to GIVE me either choice,but just doesn't want to finish the labor. I am thinking the parts is the better way to go because of all that I am getting new. I just don't know anyone that I trust to put it back together right. I am going to offer to pay him the labor & take the parts, because I think I will have a better engine & my power steering & oil leaks will be fixed too. I appreciate any advice anyone has to offer. Thanks

Smkndzl

LOL all this reading was confusing ..... If I were you , I would not settle for anything less then you want, as far as all the same engine , not really , that is why we have CPL with each version of engines , if they were all the same... we wouldnt need any CPL listing , I would just go over his head and talk to the GM of that branch , yes they are a Cummins distributorship and I think you mention you already have talked to the GM , sounds like you need to have a conversation with the Pres. of the company Mark J. McGahan and get this resolved. they need to finish what they started, a Dodge customer is no different from a truck customer, the money is all the same... the SRT times for either truck or dodge are no better for either. I got guys in my shop love to see Dodges coming in for repairs LOL alot of more room then a Intertrashional or Century Fruitloop. and they know they can make SRT times with the dodge application. I checked and looks like the headquarters is there in Atlanta , time to talk with Mark. hope it all works out for you. oh stay away from the industrial engine they want you to take. keep what you have.

BIGHEAD

Thanks John for the info. I will make sure and mention the difficulties of working on the intertrashionals & the century Fruitloops , because I am aware that local diesel shops down this way charge more money per hour on the Centuries anyway, not sure about the Internationals. I am going to insist that they finish what they started. I will be calling at 9 am to let him know I want the new parts & I want them installed right there. Thanks again for the info. Sent you a PM.

cmnscrzy

If the engine doesnt have ceramic pistons like you say,YOUD BE AN IDIOT TO ACCEPT ANYTHING BUT YOUR $$$ BACK.

Call a lawyer today...

BIGHEAD

I spent some time on the phone with the GM this morning. He absolutely refuses to do the labor to finish what they started. He told me I could have the motor or the parts he offered me & to get the truck out of their facility. He said he instructed his SM to never work on another Dodge truck again. This seems out of line to me. He said he is basing his decision on the random surveys that have been done by cummins. He said he has never gotten a positive report from a survey done on a customer with a Dodge Cummins at the Savannah,GA facility. He said it really wasn't due to workmanship either. He said people mostly complained about how long it took them to get to the job,complete the job, & how high the Labor rate was compared to a dodge dealer. I offered to pay for the 800 dollars worth of labor & persisted on. He just straight out refused to do any more work on my truck. I checked around to try to find someone to work on this for me. One place that I would feel fairly comfortable with told me 1600 to replace the piston & the head. H e said he couldn't get the piston out without pulling the block on out, because you can't get the pan out.. The Cummins guy said you can do it,especially number 4 because you can jack up the front of the motor & pull the pan off. Can anyone verify this for me one way or the other? I trust the guys on this site more than these clowns I am having to deal with. This same guy told me if I got the Long Block, he could swap it for 1100 bucks. Both of these prices included replacing the oil vacuum pump & power steering pump. The Dodge dealership I deal with has a competent diesel tech, but his last day is tomorrow. I am going to try to snag him & see if he would come to my shop or fix it at his home or something. He is a good mechanic. I want o save as much as possible without sacrificing quality work.
What do you guys think I should do concerning this GM & the dealership? Thanks again to all those who have offered up advice so far. BH

singleturnout

Get A Lawyer

Smkndzl

Danny, time for you to call Cummins direct and tell them how you had been offered by Recon a policy on your engine failure and how this distributorship is refusing to do the job now. it is time they get a spanking from the big boys and put them back in line in the way they treat Cummins customers. and to your oil pan question , that is done all the time in Dodge truck by dropping the pan enough to remove the pick up tube and setting it in the pan and then raising the engine with the fan off and motor mounts to get the pan out.

BIGHEAD

Hey John, thanks for the info. I want to make sure you are clear on one thing. As I know RECON is a separate part of Cummins, they did not make the 75% promise to pay to me. The dealership Service mGr told me that is what I could expect from them. He, the SM, is the sole reason for all this mess to start with. Now, I have went over his head to the GM. Though the GM is willing to pay for all the parts to do the job, out of the dealership's pocket, he is not willing to do the labor. That is the bottom line of the whole matter now. He told me to find someone else to do it. I can't find anyone as good as his mechanics are at doing this particular engine. They are just not available anywhere down across south GA. It seems that the few people I did talk to all have different labor times from Cummins, that are almost double the time. That tells me they don't know what they are doing if it takes them so long. I guess I will be calling someone up the food chain from the GM today & see where that gets me.

PourinDiesel

You mentioned valve cover.

There is no "core" on a valve cover.

Reminds me of the Allen Jackson "Who's cheatin' who"

BIGHEAD

PD that is what the SM told me. Another lie. I think I have found a reliable place to finish my job up. I did push the envelope up the ladder to the President of Cummins South, but he was not available. The VP of Operations was aware of the situation. I told him as I had the GM that I wanted their mechanic to finish my job. He told me he was not going to over ride the GM's decision, but he would ask one more time if they would finish it for me, since I was insistant that they finish the job. News Flash Just got back off the phone with the GM. They are gonna fix my truck at zero cost to me. The GM, I think was not happy that I went over his head, but I think no harm done. He is definetly a man of character. I think he still wanted me to take it & leave, but he did say he would fix it & give me 90 days workmanship warranty. No warranty on the parts. He did tell me he was putting a Recon head on & all new parts,to include the power steering pump & oil vacuum pump. Thumbs up to Cummins South! I guess a little professional persistance pays off some times. BH

gerry

Although by your account here it sure seems that they messed up big time when they installed your engine...

But if you called them all the names you called them here then I can't blame them for not wanting to work on your truck.. It sounds like they just want to give you the parts and get you out of the shop. I don't think there are any laws that require them to work on your truck and it is out of warranty.

Also at this point do you really want to force them to work on your truck? Who knows what kind of quality they will put into the work. I would be worried about them just throwing it together to get the truck out of the shop..

Ever heard of a Waitress or cook spitting in peoples food??

Gerry

BIGHEAD

Gerry I think,the only names I called were lying service manager. Without going back and reading all of my posts, I think just as in my last one, I complimented the GM for his character & the VP acted very professional as well. I have total confidence in the mechanics doing me a good job. I do not think they will spit in my motor. Maybe you should move from LA if that is what you get in a restaurant out there. It is probably all the smog clogging their brains or something. You don't just start working on somebody's vehicle & just decide your new policy is to not work on that vehicle anymore or others like it. That is ludicrous in CA or GA or anywhere. I am satisfied with the outcome I persistantly pursued, until I got what was right to begin with. I am not going to have to pay for anything, even after today & yesterday, offering to pay for their labor. I was going to have to pay for it somewhere, so I might as well pay them for it. Gerry where did I call anyone any names? I went back & looked. Don't see it & it doesn't matter. Thanks to those of you guys who helped me here.

Smkndzl

Danny , good to hear the good news.... something told me if you went to the top you would get things done right, and sometime that is what needs to be done. I personally think the SM let his personal feelling get involved in his decision to do what he did and took his boss to make it right. As for recon policy , yes the SM or GM cant make that call on what they will cover, I thought that was the result from Recon themselve what they would cover. I wouldnt worry about the way that engine would be assemble. they will do it right.