dcwm

Two things I would like to know about Synt. oil, How does it differ from regular oil, why doesn't auto manufacter's place it into they're maintenance line up?...(or do some?)<br><br>Thanks Sned.

DF5152

specifically what would you like to know. Synthetic oil is what the word implies. True synthetic anyway instead of being made with a crude base it is all man made. Some of the different manufacturer do not make true synthetics. Mobil had a court case with Castrol over this. The only manufacturer that I know of that supplies synthetic in the crank case would be Chevy. Mobile 1 has been standard fill from the factory in all Corvettes for years now. Not sure if Dodge uses it in the viper

dcwm

Well, I'm just trying to come to some conclusion on whether or not I want to use/try it. I have read many posts by guys saying there unit runs much cooler and have improved mileage, but, I haven't read or heard anyone compare the cost of synthetic v/s petrolium based oil and wear and tear savings on the unit.<br>I suppose bearing clearences, e.t.c., are designed for pet.base oil.....but sythetic viscosity is most likely based on most clearences e.t.c. <br>I guess what I specifically am asking is for a poll of what oil you run and do you feel it is worth the extra cost involved. <br>

Commatoze

I run Rotella Synthetic in mine, and have a commitment to do so for the next 4 oil changes ( I have 12 gallons of it in my garage.)<br><br>Is it a &quot;true&quot; synthetic? NO<br>Do I see increased fuel mileage? NO<br>Does my engine run cooler? NO<br>Do I extend my drain intervals? NO<br>Does it crank easier in the winter? YES<br>Will I continue to use a &quot;synthetic&quot;? PROBABLY NOT<br><br>I can't justify using a true synthetic like Delvac 1 while keeping the same OEM mandated drain intervals and doing 500+ miles a week. Besides, I miss that intoxicating smell of hot Rotella T ;D

FMF MX

Gentlemen -<br><br>I don't profess to know a heck of alot about the qualities of oil, but I do know this..I started using Amsoil 12 yrs ago in a vw jetta as an experiment. I commuted 122 miles a day in it, for 8 years..Changed it every 25,000 miles..Its still running, with 344,000 on it..(Finally gave it to my mom's neighbor) Anyway, I did it for the extended oil life, had it tested, etc..Then, my ex's BMW came with synthetic from the factory, with first service at 12,000 miles! Obviously, they tested it and found it to still be ok after 12k, so they don't recommend doing anything before that. I use it in my CTD, again for extended service life..12,000 then change filter &amp; oil. I have a hwy commute now of 65 miles, and the truck has 96,000 on it with no problems..From a convienence and extended life standpoint, I feel it is well worth the cost. Just depends on how often you want to change oil I guess. JMHO..

tcourse

It is my understanding that synthetic oil is made from the same crude oil and the refining process is different, something to do with strings of molicules. I got this info from a article about Harley Davidson vs Synthetic oil. I'll look for the article so I can post more info.<br>TC<br><br>

Commatoze

[quote author=tcourse link=board=4;threadid=14451;start=0#135827 date=1052323845]
It is my understanding that synthetic oil is made from the same crude oil and the refining process is different, something to do with strings of molicules. I got this info from a article about Harley Davidson vs Synthetic oil. I'll look for the article so I can post more info.
TC


[/quote]

You're partially correct. Many oils labeled as &quot;synthetic&quot; are actually highly refined hydrocracked base stocks that meet synthetic specifications. Only Group IV synthetics which are PAOs (polyalphaolefin) are true synthetics. Here's an excellent article which explains it thoroughly.

tcourse

Commatoze,<br><br>Good article. Thanks<br>TC

P Kennedy

Synthetic justification again;<br> 1-3894 Filter $12.00+12Quarts/Litres Syntec oil= <br> $132.00 CDN/25000km(15500miles)=$.0052/km <br> $84.48 US/15500 miles = $.0054/mile<br><br> Petroleum oil<br> 1-3894 Filter $12.00+12Quarts/Litres Petro oil=<br> $36.00 CDN/5000km(3000miles)= $.0072/km<br> $23.00 US/3000miles = .0077/mile<br> x 5 oil changes $180.00 CDN ($115.00 US)<br> <br> Petroleum Synthetic<br><br> Initial Cost cheap expensive<br><br> Pourability<br> -10+ poor excellent<br> <br> CTD -10+<br> oil pressure 15-45+ seconds 7-12 seconds<br><br> high temp<br> breakdown 260-300 Deg F 400-450 Deg F<br><br> wear <br> reduction good-very good excellent<br> <br> purity in <br> bottle refined/spec chemically pure<br><br> environmental<br> 60qts/15500mi 12qts/15500<br><br> engine cleanliness<br> 100k + miles<br> poor-good excellent<br><br> oil leaks <br> prevention <br> fair-excellent poor<br><br> Understanding of course that &quot;I&quot; use extended oil changes as per oil sampling analytically proving product ability and stability. My system shows $.001-$.002 per mile advantage which is negligable, however long term maintenance and convenience has proven itself in 2-CTD's and 4-3406 Cat diesels. The gear train components will without any doubt based on proven records and warranty recommendationd from major component manufacturers perform better under all conditions than petroleum oil. It will cost about $500.00 CDN to convert a CTD with petrolem oil to a synthetic user but again the reliabilty and convenience under extreme operating conditions will out weigh the initial cost. For the granny goats out there puttsing about daily this cost will not be recognized as a saving by the cost per mile method. For those using the truck like a large portion of us do for heavy work like pulling in a scaled down version of my highway tractor you will see a difference. PK---------------Flamers Proceed----------------

HC

[quote author=dcwm link=board=4;threadid=14451;start=0#135713 date=1052304147]<br>I guess what I specifically am asking is for a poll of what oil you run and do you feel it is worth the extra cost involved. <br>[/quote]<br><br>I run Amsoil 15W-40, Heavy Duty Marine and Diesel oil. <br>There is no extra cost for me, because I use extended drains, bypass filtration, and oil sampling. It sounds complex, but once you get the initial set-up, you spend less time under the hood than with regular oil changes.<br><br>I could save money with synthetic, but I choose to change full flow filters and sample every 5,000 miles, which runs the cost up to about the same as what it would be using Dino oil. Depending on how many miles you drive per year, I would consider three plans:<br><br>Low miles/year (&lt;20,000): Dino oil, 5000 mile changes. Delo suggested.<br><br>Medium miles/year (20k to 50k): Synthetic (Amsoil or Delvac 1 suggested). change filter at 5k, then filter and oil at 10k. Also use this plan if you live where it is either very cold or very hot.<br><br>High miles/year (&gt;50k): Synthetic, but add a bypass filter, draw oil samples, and go to true extended drain intervals. I used to change at 20k to 30k intervals, but now I'm at 40k and counting.

dcwm

I guess I have been living in a cave, didn't realize there were folks changing they're oil at such long intervals.<br><br>Also, I didn't realize synthetic oil was that expensive [undecided]<br><br>Synthetics are really good for racers, hard workers, extreme duty which leaves me out except for pulling a camper three or four times a year and an ocasional horse trailer, just not gonna pay for it's self.<br><br>Thanks guys for the education, the link was very interesting and informative!

dcwm

This is another
discussion
on the subject if'n your interested. Go to Tow vehichles towards the bottom.

Stamey

My understanding is 1. It disapates heat better (proof for this comes from the Dodge Ram owners manual, where they recommend putting synthetic in your rear if you do a lot of heavy towing, and the fact that the 2003 come with synthetic already in the rear), 2. it doesn't break down as easily, hence the longer change intervals, and 3. the oil holds particulate matter better allowing it to get strained out by the filter, rather than settling or building up in the engine.<br>If you really lookk at it carefully, if you do the extended drain intervals, kind of like P Kennedy said, you will spend more for an oil change, but you actually save money in the long run because you aren't changing the oil as often.<br><br>I am at 16K on my Amsoil, installed at 50K, and my analysis done at 13K said I had slightly high copper content, but the oil did not need changing.<br><br>To restate what FMF MX said, I have a 1986 BMW 325 gasser I purchased with 153K on it. I started running Amsoil in it (engine, tranny, and rear) at 175K with 25K engine oil changes and 12.5K filter changes. It now has 306K on it and show no signs of any problems. Every time I get in it I drive it like I stole it. ;D<br><br>If I figure dino oil at 1.00 per quart, and the filter at 7 bucks, with 4K oil changes, I'd spend 72 dollars on oil changes in the same period I spent 42.00 on one oil change with Amsoil (6 bucks a quart and 12.00 for the Amsoil filter), and I get the benefits of synthetic to boot! If you do the math Synthetic is hard to beat.<br><br>Chris

NWDave

[quote author=P Kennedy link=board=4;threadid=14451;start=0#135860 date=1052331132]<br> For the granny goats out there puttsing about daily this cost will not be recognized as a saving by the cost per mile method. For those using the truck like a large portion of us do for heavy work like pulling in a scaled down version of my highway tractor you will see a difference. PK---------------Flamers Proceed----------------<br>[/quote]<br>PK .......<br>GRANNY GOAT???? Who you callin' a Granny Goat????? Oh, me? Well, I suppose you're right, but it ain't puttsin' around. We're going places. On the basis of your information, I don't see a need to change to synthetic oil in the crankcase. Rear and front end differentials of course would be another thing. How do you feel about synthetic oil in a DTT modified auto transmission? No heavy towing yet and not anticipated for the next couple of years. Just &quot;granny goat&quot; driving. <br><br>~noflameshereDave

Ruralmedic

[quote author=dcwm link=board=4;threadid=14451;start=0#136091 date=1052384067]<br>Also, I didn't realize synthetic oil was that expensive [undecided]<br><br> <br>[/quote] Yes, too expensive for most CTD owners to run in the crankcase. Fine to run in things like the axles and transmissions that usually don't get changed as often.<br><br>I'm currently using Amsoil in the crankcase, and I can tell you what I'm exactly paying.<br><br>AME 15W-40 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil-<br>$60.00 per 4 gallon case<br><br>SDF full flow oil filter-$13.85<br><br>Amsoil Engine Flush- 2 @ $3.45 ea. = $6.90 (Recommended prior to installing Amsoil in engine, it's mostly kerosine)<br><br>So far, $80.75 + tax @ 5.5% + shippping $12.44 = $97.63<br><br>Plus annual club fee of $30 per year to buy as preferred customer.<br><br>Recommended service on AME, without by-pass filtration, is up to two times the manufacturer's recommended drain interval(which is 7,500 - 15,000 miles on the CTD) or SIX MONTHS, whichever comes first. <br><br>I've got about 2,000 miles on the current fill, I pull the dipstick and can see soot in the oil. I can't figure out why it isn't getting filtered out, I'm paying a premium price for both oil and filtration. Oh well, I guess I live in the real world.