Venting some frustration!!! (And an auto trans question...)
05-19-2009, 10:00 PM
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Venting some frustration!!! (And an auto trans question...)
I have to drive some heavy stuff about 1000 miles next Monday. I've known about this trip for about a month, and naturally intended to use Geronimo, my '93 W250.
Well, 2 weeks ago I was driving and all of a sudden there were some very bad noises coming from the transmission/torque converter area. Although I have tons of other things to do, I brought the truck into my shop and removed the transmission. Turned out the flexplate had been torn to pieces (amazing the darned thing even ran...)
A week later, new flexplate in hand, I reinstalled the transmission. However, I apparently did not adequately understand the role of the torque-converter-to-transmission-pump-seal. I took a six-mile test drive, and all seemed good at first, but soon it was shifting strangely, and OD did not work, and when I got home, there was ATF pouring out from the torque converter/flexplate area. I did some online research, educated myself about the seal, bought the seal, and tried to bring the truck back into the shop. However, this time it did not move when I put it in gear. No big deal, I thought, it's just low on fluid. So I pushed it into the shop.
Then, I pulled the transmission out again. On the transmission input shaft, I noticed about four very small (about 1/3 the size of a grain of rice) pieces of metal debris stuck in the ATF covering the shaft. Also, the two "tangs" which engage the two "notches" on the torque converter output tube seemed to move around very easily, and imprecisely. I could stick a screwdriver into the input end of the trans, alongside the input shaft, and push the tangs around easily, and they did not seem to move in a strictly circular way. I do not know if this is normal. I installed the seal, and reinstalled the transmission. (It's a lot easier to write about it than do it... it's not a small job!)
And when I was finished... nothing! The transmission FEELS like it's shifting into gear... the linkage is set up right.... the transfer case is hooked up and shifting properly, there is an appropriate amount of fluid in the trans, there are no strange noises coming from anywhere, but the truck will not move. I removed one of the trans cooler lines, and it was bone dry, even with the Cummins running. This suggests to me that the pump in the front of the trans is either not being driven (which seems impossible to me... you can't get the TC in there without engaging the "tangs"), or it's dead.
I am no automatic transmission expert (in fact I am coming to hate them) so I don't really understand what might be happening in there. Does anyone know? Could the pump be dead? Is it easy to change the pump? What else could be going on???
Needless to say, I am extremely frustrated. Working on this truck is becoming my full-time job, and I've got a lot of better things to be doing. (I had a fuel leak above the fuel filter, researched it on this site, replaced the fuel heater gasket, and it's still leaking!!!) I am now in the position of having to borrow a friends F250 to transport the equipment next week. Thank god I have a friend who will lend me a truck. This is absolutely NOT the first time this Dodge has let me down.
Two weeks ago, when I was having trouble trying to find a flexplate, I found a junkyard 150 miles away who would sell me a Getrag 5 speed and everything needed to do the transplant for $1800. That's cheaper than buying a new truck, and I could get rid of this god-forsaken A518. But it puts me under the Dodge for at least a few more days, and it won't help me out for next week. I'm not sure yet whether or not to move on the Getrag.
Anyone have any ideas about the unresponsive transmission? Or the Getrag? Or general reactions to my frustrating story?
Christian
Well, 2 weeks ago I was driving and all of a sudden there were some very bad noises coming from the transmission/torque converter area. Although I have tons of other things to do, I brought the truck into my shop and removed the transmission. Turned out the flexplate had been torn to pieces (amazing the darned thing even ran...)
A week later, new flexplate in hand, I reinstalled the transmission. However, I apparently did not adequately understand the role of the torque-converter-to-transmission-pump-seal. I took a six-mile test drive, and all seemed good at first, but soon it was shifting strangely, and OD did not work, and when I got home, there was ATF pouring out from the torque converter/flexplate area. I did some online research, educated myself about the seal, bought the seal, and tried to bring the truck back into the shop. However, this time it did not move when I put it in gear. No big deal, I thought, it's just low on fluid. So I pushed it into the shop.
Then, I pulled the transmission out again. On the transmission input shaft, I noticed about four very small (about 1/3 the size of a grain of rice) pieces of metal debris stuck in the ATF covering the shaft. Also, the two "tangs" which engage the two "notches" on the torque converter output tube seemed to move around very easily, and imprecisely. I could stick a screwdriver into the input end of the trans, alongside the input shaft, and push the tangs around easily, and they did not seem to move in a strictly circular way. I do not know if this is normal. I installed the seal, and reinstalled the transmission. (It's a lot easier to write about it than do it... it's not a small job!)
And when I was finished... nothing! The transmission FEELS like it's shifting into gear... the linkage is set up right.... the transfer case is hooked up and shifting properly, there is an appropriate amount of fluid in the trans, there are no strange noises coming from anywhere, but the truck will not move. I removed one of the trans cooler lines, and it was bone dry, even with the Cummins running. This suggests to me that the pump in the front of the trans is either not being driven (which seems impossible to me... you can't get the TC in there without engaging the "tangs"), or it's dead.
I am no automatic transmission expert (in fact I am coming to hate them) so I don't really understand what might be happening in there. Does anyone know? Could the pump be dead? Is it easy to change the pump? What else could be going on???
Needless to say, I am extremely frustrated. Working on this truck is becoming my full-time job, and I've got a lot of better things to be doing. (I had a fuel leak above the fuel filter, researched it on this site, replaced the fuel heater gasket, and it's still leaking!!!) I am now in the position of having to borrow a friends F250 to transport the equipment next week. Thank god I have a friend who will lend me a truck. This is absolutely NOT the first time this Dodge has let me down.
Two weeks ago, when I was having trouble trying to find a flexplate, I found a junkyard 150 miles away who would sell me a Getrag 5 speed and everything needed to do the transplant for $1800. That's cheaper than buying a new truck, and I could get rid of this god-forsaken A518. But it puts me under the Dodge for at least a few more days, and it won't help me out for next week. I'm not sure yet whether or not to move on the Getrag.
Anyone have any ideas about the unresponsive transmission? Or the Getrag? Or general reactions to my frustrating story?
Christian
05-20-2009, 07:19 AM
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robox I don't like autos about as much as you. I think i'd shop around a little more and find the NV4500 setup for about the same money. When you did the re-install of your auto sounds like you didn't quite have your convertor quite lined up and broke the pump but I don't know for sure. I have the Getrag in one of my trucks and don't have any complaints but the NV4500 would be a good upgrade. Good luck with your trans problem.
05-20-2009, 03:44 PM
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Adminstrator-ess
It sounds to me like you did not get the pump drive tangs on the converter lined up right and ran the truck that way, destroying the pump. 
Gonna need a pump, but it's no worse of a job than pulling the converter out again.
At least you have lots of practice dropping the trans and can do it quickly now...
Gonna need a pump, but it's no worse of a job than pulling the converter out again.
At least you have lots of practice dropping the trans and can do it quickly now...
05-20-2009, 05:07 PM
#4
Chapter President
yep, did you bolt the converter to the flex plate then put the trans up to converter?
you have to spin and push the converter around a few times to get it to seat right. After you have it in there should just be enough room to fit you your finger tips (if you don't have fat fingers) between the back of the converter and the trans.
you have to spin and push the converter around a few times to get it to seat right. After you have it in there should just be enough room to fit you your finger tips (if you don't have fat fingers) between the back of the converter and the trans.
05-21-2009, 09:29 AM
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As for how I put it together.... I put the TC onto the transmission input shaft and wiggled it / rotated it until it seated. I was very aware of the "interlock" between the pump tangs and the TC tube notches, and it felt like I got it right. That's why I am confused about what really happened. Only after bolting up the bell-housing to the engine adapter plate did I install the 6 flexplate-to-TC bolts.
On another point, the $1800 for the Getrag includes the trans, transfer case, flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, engine adapter, pedal assembly, master and slave cylinders, and both driveshafts, out of a truck that had less than 100K on it. Probably an OK deal, but too much $$ for me right now anyway.
I have a new pump on the way, might try to get it in over the weekend, and if things go well (for a change) it might be driveable next week after all. My fingers are crossed.
Christian
On another point, the $1800 for the Getrag includes the trans, transfer case, flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, engine adapter, pedal assembly, master and slave cylinders, and both driveshafts, out of a truck that had less than 100K on it. Probably an OK deal, but too much $$ for me right now anyway.
I have a new pump on the way, might try to get it in over the weekend, and if things go well (for a change) it might be driveable next week after all. My fingers are crossed.
Christian
05-24-2009, 09:37 AM
#7
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As you are sure the tangs were engaged, first thing I would have done after no movement would be a line pressure check while in drive, that would tell you whether your pump is making enough pressure. Another good pressure check is the L&R band servo while in reverse, these go a good bit higher psi than line pressure.
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