NJTman

Sorry, T.

I'm still accumulating all the parts. Once I have them all in one spot, I'll do the switch.

I don't possess a pump from a 77, and I could get one, if I travel a few hours.

For me, it's just easier to go spend $20 @ the local hose shop (10 minutes from me) and have them fabricate a new end on my 92 hose. They just cut off the hose end and install a new fitting that matches the pump... Done.


Thanks for the idea, though.



T.

bobva

NJT

You might NEED that pump from the 72-77.
The hole system could operate at a different pressure.

plunger and spring (posts 28,26,15)

Ok I guess you got a bit of a drive to the parts truck.
Napa want about 60 fit you subtract the hose 20 so that difference of 40

NJTman

3 Hour drive.... just like Gilligan, the professor and Maryanne

What you're saying is to buy a napa reman unit, and pull the guts out of it? Plunger spring ??

I don't believe that the pump will fit as the cummins pump is bolted on completely different.

bobva

Pull the spring and plunger valve gut the parts out of the 72-77 Napa.

Bob

PapeCAT

Guys why do you suggest using a gasser pump setup? The saginaw boxes from the 70's are the same as the ones in our trucks. The PS pump should match the engine in my opinion. (different RPMs etc)

And when T. Man gets his box back from RedHead it will be a whole new animal anyway so that variable is out the door. I'd just stick with the PS pump setup on the cummins and run a new line for piece of mind. (new rubber instead of 35 year old rubber)

simplysmn

Sorry guy's but I would put crossover up against this Old style steering any day of the week Why go backward's 30 yr's I understand alot of guy's don't have a lift but there has got to be a point where you weigh your option's and take the best route ? this is just MHO

bobva

For Me
I dont what a lifted truck.
I rather lower my truck if any thing.
I dont want a bent home made drag link.
I am going the best route.

bobva

Hum lets see now.
Why a Gasser pump 72-77

1.If buy chance which It probably does has a different flow fate than the cummins steering pump. By changing that valve that would correct the flow rate
2 If you put the gasser connecter on the cummins pump you can the you pull into any NAPA and get a stock hose.

Redheads
I like that Idea I think ill talk to them tomorrow on the way north.


Buy the way which power steering pump are you using?

james1

I'm simply looking for a way to lose that steering box mounting plate (for the reasons stated in Post #25 above). I would go backwards 100 years to get rid of that thing. My truck isn't lifted and it sits too high already. As BILTIT discovered, no one makes a plug-and-play kit to put crossover steering on an unlifted truck. I continue to explore the options.

PapeCAT

I agree with your #1 they probably do have a different flow rate - dictated by input engine RPM etc... Cummins spec'd PS pumps probably flow more at lower RPM?! v8 gassers cruise at a much higher RPM than our trucks. But all that aside - they could be geared proportionately so the power steering pumps are turning at the same rate on either application.

I used the cummins PS pump off of the 1991.0 on my '72 with stock Reverse rotation box. It is funny actually I put 3 different steering gear/boxes on the truck to test. The first one (a recent napa reman) was faulty and very twitchy - like a valve malfunction. Halfway through a turn it would almost want to straighten out and then JERK hard in the direction you were turning.

I found that replacing the steering box solved the issue.

Let me dig up mysteryman's tidbit of gold-nugget info over at TDR. BRB

PapeCAT

Mysteryman Wrote:

"I have a ton of pumps that will work. The only real differance between a gas and diesel pump is the colar that is pressed onto the shaft and the restrictor valve that is under the big nut where the power hose is...You need a special puller to get it off and an installer to put it back on....DO NOT try to press it on with a hyd. press with the pump assembled....You will ruin the pump if you do....

AS for the pumps interchangabilty.......You can find that same pump on most Gm and chrysler cars that were built in the past 30 years..The only differances in them is the shape of the can and that some have the holes tapped for metric thread.

What you reall ought to do is rebuild the one you have. The overhaul kit is
pretty cheap and there is nothing to rebuilding them"

PapeCAT

Mysteryman Wrote in regards to the cracked "plate":

This is a real common problem on 4wd trucks.....This happens for 2 reasons.

1) using wider tires and deep offset wheels than the stock tires and wheels...

2) the 78 to 93 4wd trucks were fitted with 2wd steering gears .....
A) This was done to reduce costs.....

B) The sector shaft in the early 72 to 77 4wd trucks sat horizontally . The steering gear was mounted on a right angle bracket. The pitman arm pointed down to the ground and swung front to rear of the truck. This was much stronger due to the way the force was applied to the frame..

C) On 78 to 93 4wd trucks a 2wd box was mounted on a steel bracket to tip the box about 30 degrees....Then the drag link was bent in a Z to keep the tire from hitting it......The problem was that now the pitman arm swung left to right causing the frame to twist...This often caused the rivet to come loose where the front cross member joined the frame... Once that top rivet came loose the frame would move excessively causing the frame to fracture where the box mounts......

We did make a special bracket to reinforce the frame. It ran from the inside of the frame where the box mounts to the front cross member....These brackets did not get put on very many trucks at the factory...


To solve your problem vee out the crack. Then neatly mig weld the frame back .Replace the rivets that came loose with 1/2" fine thread grade 8 bolts. Use thick flat washers and a prevailing torque lock nut. Do NOT use split lock washers...

Now go find you a 72 to 77 4wd steering box,pitman arm and cast angle bracket....Also get the drag link....
It will fit your truck and keep you from breaking it again....If you have wide tire/rims I would recommend going back to stock....

If you need anymore info on this PM me"

PapeCAT

Mysteryman wrote in regards to "hard steering" after replacing PS pump:

"P/S Pump problems & steering gear facts
You may just have a stuck or clogged regulator/bypass valve in the pump.

Where the power hose screws into the pump there is a very large nut.. Remove that nut and you will find a spring and a regulator valve behind it...The valve has a screen in it. Be sure it is clean. The big nut has a small hole in the center where the fluid passes threw it..Make sure it is not clogged up... There are MANY different regulator valves and "big nut fittings" out there. The difference between them is the size of the hole.
The hole size determines the flow rate of the pump...The larger the hole the easier the steering gets.... The weight of the vehicle and the steering gear design determines what size hole is needed.. If you decide to increase the hole size. Do it in small increments.. WARNING..If you get wild and just hog it out to the max you will BLOW all the seals out of your steering gear.

The pump in our trucks has been around for 40 years..It is a Saginaw 115 pump... That's right guys...It's a Chevy pump. LOL
Chrysler started using them back in the early 70's.. They are great pumps.
The steering gear in our trucks is a Saginaw 708...They were a great gear box but never were intended to handle the weight of our diesel engines.
Our trucks do tend to tear up the sector shafts in the 708's after prolonged use... The good news is that the 72 to 93 gas 2wd trucks used the same gear as our trucks did .. Yes the 89 to 93 diesels used the same gear in both 2wd and 4wd trucks... When hunting for a good used gear box. Get it out of a D100 or ramcharger...Those trucks were light and did not rag on the sectors shaft so much...

Last note to those using rebuilt pumps from the parts store...
It is best to reuse your original bypass valve and "Big nut " restrictor fitting
in your newly acquired rebuilt pump.. The rebuilders often do not put the correct one in for the vehicle the pump is being put on .... This can cause problems like you have described..."

PapeCAT

Mysteryman wrote:

"frame crack/ steering
What causes the frame to break is using wide tires and deep offset rims...
The rivets come loose on the cross member allowing the frame to twist back and forth..
I hope you used a mig welder and not a stick welder ....most general stick welding rod makes for a much too brittle weld. Welding on frames is a real bad idea in the first place but in a case like yours you have no choice..We made a bracket to reinforce the frame at the steering box in 79. You can find them on some of the 80's ramchargers... Replace the rivets on the front cross member ahead of the gear box with 1/2" fine thread bolts and use heavy gauge flat washers. Do NOT use split lock washers.... Heat just the rivet head with a torch to red . Then hit it with an air chisel to get the old rivets. Do NOT cut the rivets out with a cutting torch !

To fix the problem of breaking frames at the gear box . Here is what else you can do to keep it from happening again.

1) find a gear box reinforcement bracket in the junk yard and put it on.
There are no more new ones left at Chrysler...

2) replace your gear box and drag link with one off of any 72 to 77 4wd
W100, W200 or W300 . It is a totally different system and loads the frame differently... The sector shaft runs horizontally instead of vertically as yours does now.

3) Use stock wheels and tires and keep the truck at stock ride height !!!!!

This is no new problem on these trucks..The diesel 4x4 is the worst for having this trouble.... Follow the above and you have a chance of not breaking it again... Ignore them and I guarantee you it will ! The next time it breaks you will have a real mess to fix..

Upon occasion this used to happen under warrantee.. When it did we would replace the frame..We would never weld a frame because they were made from high carbon steel which work hardens and becomes brittle when welded! If the customer had the wrong size wheels or tires on the truck we would void the warrantee and give them a bill for the repair !"

PapeCAT

There you have it guys. For those of you who do not know - Mysteryman/Terry Elders is a retired Chrysler Engineer.

As you can see, the 72-77 steering setup is the best. As for it not to be used because it is "30" year old technology I have to laugh! It is actually more like 45 year old technology engineered in the 60's into the first '72 that rolled off the line!

The stock "new" style steering system that breaks on our trucks was cobbled together as a fix to save Chrysler money in 1978! THAT is 30+ year old technology! Our trucks themselves are 45+ year old technology... Not much changed from 72-93 outside of cosmetics...