BearKiller

I am glad to read of so many that have taken the propane plunge.

I have considered it; but, until now, I had been at a loss as to how to actually get the propane into the system.

Now we know. THANKS


Through my own research, I am led to believe that propane is no more flammable nor dangerous than either of the accepted refrigerants.

I think a lot of the fear comes from the fact that propane is considered a fuel for furnaces, torches, and the like, whereas R12 or R134a are much too expensive to ever be used as such.


Why, plain old ethylene-glycol anti-freeze is quite flammable, yet no one goes into a panic about it.




Now, my question :


Did you guys evacuate the system and pull a vacuum; or, did you just dump the propane in with whatever was already in there ?? R12 or R134a ??

Thanks.

BearKiller

I like your initiative, ppiggppenn.



TODAY 8:40AM = How did you do this ??

TODAY 4:06PM = Mission accomplished and done got her did.


Y'all keep us posted on results and I may soon give it a try myself.

VIN#Diesel

I just topped off whatever R12 was left in the system with propane. Everything I'd read indicated that propane mixes fine with R12 (note I said from what I read not what I know ) so I saw no reason to pull out what R12 might be left.

BearKiller

How about propanes compatibility with R134a ??

Thanks.

olddodgetrucks

what do you think you are buying in stores to refill a/c propane with a small amount of fire retardant,been using propane for 20+ years.

dzl_damon

yeah, usually when you loose a charge you don't loose your oil, unless there is a visible sign it's lost. Usually shaft seals are the culprit.

Good luck.

VIN#Diesel

From what I remember reading a lot of people claimed that propane pretty much mixed with anything. HOWEVER, I skimmed much of the R134 info I came across.

My thought process was that as cheap and easy as R134 is get and work with, in an existing R134 system I wasn't willing to run the risk as the refills are inexpensive, available everywhere and are a known good replacement.

Not so much trying to dissuade you there, just explaining my logic and letting you know that although I remember encountering info that mentioned it was compatible, I didn't look more deeply into it.

If researching in more depth on R134 compatibility with propane I would read more specificly on propane and PAG or polyester (?) oil (my understanding is this is the oil used in R134 systems).

I know propane is rumored to be very compatibile with the mineral oil used in R12 systems. A lot of rumors (for what it's worth) that there is propane and/or butane in the majority of the mixes and replacements of most of the name brand miracle drop-in refridgerants on the market currently.

Hope that relative non-answer helps a bit.

BearKiller

It helps a lot and gives me some points to consider.


My main aim in possibly trying the propane is that, from what I have gathered, propane is capable of quite a bit colder temperatures than I am getting with R134a.

1$Chuck

When I was in college, one of my thermodynamics Professors told us that Propane was the best refrigerant because it was the most efficient, and that it was used for some building AC units. I might have to give this a try too.

maybe368

As a retired firefighter, I have a problem with putting a highly flammable and explosive, heavier than air gas, in a place where you don't expect to find it. Especially when 12 oz cans of freeze 12 are available on ebay for 10 dollars and free shipping. 10 ozs is not that much, but could create a mini-bleve (boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion), when it is heated in a well sealed environment, like an ac system. Far fetched, maybe, but firefighters have been hurt or killed by more far fetched things than this. Officially off soap box...Mark

maybe368

Ammonia is a great refrigerant and was (is) used in many large, industrial ac systems, but there is a big downside, it easily kills many people when it is vented out of the system. I had an Arctic Storage complex in my first due area that had 5000 gallons of ammonia in it. It was a SCARY place, because their system had 1 valve that would dump the entire system into the sewer (as liquid). Just because something works well for 1 thing, does not mean that you should. One should consider the consequences...Mark

apwatson50

I picked up a 99 tahoe that was low on refrigerant. In needing to fill it up so I could find the leak I put 1 can of r134 I had laying around then went to the store for another can and at $15 i didn't. I put a couple onces of propane in the system so I could get the compressor to cycle until I find the leak. Seems to be working fine so far as I haven't found the leak yet!

Also from what i've read r134 is just as flammable as HC refrigerants.

maybe368

It is only slightly flammable, especially when compared to propane.This might interest you. Mark

VIN#Diesel

Respectfully, firefighters tend to have a bit of a partially informed perspective on many of the HazMat and Flammability subjects as they have just enough knowledge and certification to form what seems to be a very scientific opinion but lacks full information.

How does the 10-15oz of propane leaking out partially into the cab and partially to the open site compare to the 30 gallons of gasoline leaking out all over the site in terms of overall fire hazard?

What about RV's transporting multiple appliances powered by propane in much larger quantities with an actual contained quarters that might have to be fully entered? Individuals transporting BBQ equipment? 10 pound BBQ tanks exchanged at the local Walmart, transported home in the trunk that have had the valves damaged in the crash and are leaking huge amounts off propane into a fully contained trunk? Cars and trucks running propane injection systems for fueling?

Have you considered that the potential imaginary crash that is containing the full 10 oz ounces of pooled propane would involve all of the leakage coming through the evaporator and spilling out entirely into the cab?

We're of course assuming that the vehicle hasn't rolled onto it's roof or side and broken the windows as in those scenarios the gas would spill out of the vehicle and could not pool inside.

What about lighter than air gasses in rollover collisions that could pool gasses under the canopy of the cab mimicking a hot air balloon's collection of lighter than air gasses (CNG powered vehicles).

Would the propane in the AC system change any of the firefighting procedures of a car fire in terms of distance that the fire is generally fought at, overall risk compared to known and estimated amounts of flammables on site in a car crash? Or meaningfully add to the risk here.

My understanding is that burning R12 creates "green gas". Generally known as "mustard gas" and almost immediately destroys lung tissue. So in the same scenario, the risk to the firefighter would be quite real if R12 gas was present instead of propane.

Also to note, a many of these Red-Tek/Freeze 12/etc. replacements already contain propane and butane.

Just a few points to consider to the knee jerk reaction that "but propane is flammable..." as we contemplate crashes in vehicles already carrying and being powered by 10-50 gallons of explosive or flammable liquids and gasses.

maybe368

Pm's are a great tool to settle perceived problems, this one's in the can...Mark