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Dually Front hub wheel bearings

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Old May 14, 2017 | 03:19 PM
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From: Commerce, OK
Dually Front hub wheel bearings

My front hubs have been needing service for some time because the PO didn't think the dust covers were needed. Also, when I had the front tires replaced the bearings were quite loose and needed to be tightened. Soon I need to replace the disk pads and service the bearings. I think I have a source for the dust covers which seem to be unobtanium as new. Hopefully the inside seals are available.

My question is, what is the correct procedure for tightening the front hub bearings? I searched through the stickys but I didn't find it. If I missed it please direct me.

Thanks

Edwin
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Old May 16, 2017 | 09:12 AM
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From: Isanti, MN
Originally Posted by edwinsmith
My front hubs have been needing service for some time because the PO didn't think the dust covers were needed. Also, when I had the front tires replaced the bearings were quite loose and needed to be tightened. Soon I need to replace the disk pads and service the bearings. I think I have a source for the dust covers which seem to be unobtanium as new. Hopefully the inside seals are available.

My question is, what is the correct procedure for tightening the front hub bearings? I searched through the stickys but I didn't find it. If I missed it please direct me.

Thanks

Edwin
Torque em down about 100 ft lb or so (not critical, just real tight) to seat the bearings, then back it off and set the end play (lash) , minimal free play to slight interference. Any play shows up as brake pedal drop as the rotor wobbles. Minimal is OK, but if it's excessive, it'll affect your brakes.

With lubrication, the tapered roller bearings used in all the wheels on these trucks can run slight free play to slight interference, ie finger tight plus one notch on the keeper with no problems. The main mistake I've seen is not tightening them first to set the bearing cones, causing excessive free play when they set going down the road. The other mistake I've seen is one dude tightened the rear bearings to 140 ft/lbs and left them there. That was my first Dodge Cummins and I discovered it on the way home when the hubs overheated. I had to buy a breaker bar and a socket to get them loose. They made the rest of the trip OK, but they were damaged and had to be replaced.

The point in the story is they are tough and quite forgiving. As long as they are reasonably set up, they'll be just fine.
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Old May 16, 2017 | 04:27 PM
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From: Commerce, OK
Originally Posted by j_martin
Torque em down about 100 ft lb or so (not critical, just real tight) to seat the bearings, then back it off and set the end play (lash) , minimal free play to slight interference. Any play shows up as brake pedal drop as the rotor wobbles. Minimal is OK, but if it's excessive, it'll affect your brakes.

With lubrication, the tapered roller bearings used in all the wheels on these trucks can run slight free play to slight interference, ie finger tight plus one notch on the keeper with no problems. The main mistake I've seen is not tightening them first to set the bearing cones, causing excessive free play when they set going down the road. The other mistake I've seen is one dude tightened the rear bearings to 140 ft/lbs and left them there. That was my first Dodge Cummins and I discovered it on the way home when the hubs overheated. I had to buy a breaker bar and a socket to get them loose. They made the rest of the trip OK, but they were damaged and had to be replaced.

The point in the story is they are tough and quite forgiving. As long as they are reasonably set up, they'll be just fine.
SO I should back them off about 1/3 turn like the rears? Thanks for the info. I suspected they were similar but I just needed confirmation.

Edwin
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Old May 16, 2017 | 07:43 PM
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From: Land of the Toxic Avenger
Originally Posted by edwinsmith
SO I should back them off about 1/3 turn like the rears? Thanks for the info. I suspected they were similar but I just needed confirmation.

Edwin
Fake FSM Specifications.....
Attached Thumbnails Dually Front hub wheel bearings-2wd-front-brake-hub.jpg  
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Old May 16, 2017 | 09:08 PM
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From: Commerce, OK
Originally Posted by NJTman
Fake FSM Specifications.....

What year FSM is that page from. My 89 FSM doesn't have that. It especially doesn't have the Dually front hubs for the 2WD which are very different from the standard or 4WD hubs. My FSM says absolutely nothing about tightening spindle bearings.

So basically I have it that the nut should be tightened enough to seat the bearing races and then backed of and tightened enough to compress the grease out for ZERO clearance and backed off enough to give .001 to .010 clearance.

THAT'S a lot of variance.

Edwin
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Old May 16, 2017 | 10:31 PM
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From: Land of the Toxic Avenger
Originally Posted by edwinsmith
What year FSM is that page from. My 89 FSM doesn't have that. It especially doesn't have the Dually front hubs for the 2WD which are very different from the standard or 4WD hubs. My FSM says absolutely nothing about tightening spindle bearings.

So basically I have it that the nut should be tightened enough to seat the bearing races and then backed of and tightened enough to compress the grease out for ZERO clearance and backed off enough to give .001 to .010 clearance.

THAT'S a lot of variance.

Edwin
1992. As you mentioned...its disorganized and non intuitive as to where things are and should be. There is a wheel bearing section in the axle chapter, and it's for 1/2 ton trucks. The same pertinent info for 3/4 and 1 ton is in the brakes chapter.
Very disorganized.
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Old May 17, 2017 | 08:03 AM
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From: Isanti, MN
Originally Posted by edwinsmith
What year FSM is that page from. My 89 FSM doesn't have that. It especially doesn't have the Dually front hubs for the 2WD which are very different from the standard or 4WD hubs. My FSM says absolutely nothing about tightening spindle bearings.

So basically I have it that the nut should be tightened enough to seat the bearing races and then backed of and tightened enough to compress the grease out for ZERO clearance and backed off enough to give .001 to .010 clearance.

THAT'S a lot of variance.

Edwin
Translated to the real world where both bearings and threads wear:

Tighten it down to seat the bearings.
Back it off, and take it down to just snug while rotating the wheel.
Back it off again and set it to where you can just barely feel end play.

Here's where the thread wear comes in. Set the retainer and tighten the lock nut. Check for end play again. If the threads are worn (likely) the lock nut will take a few thousanth's of end play out by moving the inside nut from the outside face of the threads to the inside face. If it does you have to back it off and back up the inside nut one tab.

Better yet, install Stage 8 x-locker spindle nuts and you have the simplicity of adjusting a nylock spindle nut and better retention than the 2 nut bend a tab system.
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Old May 17, 2017 | 10:24 AM
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From: Commerce, OK
Originally Posted by j_martin
Better yet, install Stage 8 x-locker spindle nuts and you have the simplicity of adjusting a nylock spindle nut and better retention than the 2 nut bend a tab system.
OH! I hope we don't get into any controversy about whether we have one nut or two.
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Old May 17, 2017 | 01:53 PM
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From: Land of the Toxic Avenger
Originally Posted by edwinsmith
OH! I hope we don't get into any controversy about whether we have one nut or two.
Some are born that way....
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Old May 17, 2017 | 01:56 PM
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From: Land of the Toxic Avenger
Originally Posted by j_martin
Translated to the real world where both bearings and threads wear:

Tighten it down to seat the bearings.
Back it off, and take it down to just snug while rotating the wheel.
Back it off again and set it to where you can just barely feel end play.

Here's where the thread wear comes in. Set the retainer and tighten the lock nut. Check for end play again. If the threads are worn (likely) the lock nut will take a few thousanth's of end play out by moving the inside nut from the outside face of the threads to the inside face. If it does you have to back it off and back up the inside nut one tab.

Better yet, install Stage 8 x-locker spindle nuts and you have the simplicity of adjusting a nylock spindle nut and better retention than the 2 nut bend a tab system.
I've run into that on my brick. The free play changes once you lock down that outer nut, causing me to back it off and adjust it again
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Old May 17, 2017 | 02:49 PM
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From: Commerce, OK
Originally Posted by NJTman
I've run into that on my brick. The free play changes once you lock down that outer nut, causing me to back it off and adjust it again
When I updated my rears to the double nut solution I just put the outer nut on just a little more than finger tight and then bent the tab over on it. I figure it's just for safety anyway and to keep the lock washer on. I like the 2 nut solution better because there's no chance of that stupid lock clip coming out. The NyLock was pretty worn anyway so I didn't trust it. I had no problem with cotter pins in the past but those were ball bearings. Those were all over the place.
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Old May 17, 2017 | 06:11 PM
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From: Land of the Toxic Avenger
Originally Posted by edwinsmith
When I updated my rears to the double nut solution I just put the outer nut on just a little more than finger tight and then bent the tab over on it. I figure it's just for safety anyway and to keep the lock washer on. I like the 2 nut solution better because there's no chance of that stupid lock clip coming out. The NyLock was pretty worn anyway so I didn't trust it. I had no problem with cotter pins in the past but those were ball bearings. Those were all over the place.
That outer nut gets torqued heavy to lock the two nuts together. If you don't torque them, you will shear that tabbed washer right off where it meets the groove in the axle tube. I've done it myself. Its soft metal and that inner tab easily shears off if not kept in check by the bearings.

Without torquing that properly, you potentially have set yourself up for catastrophic failure.. But that's just my wild and crazy guy opinion, which really doesn't mean anything.

My lock nuts are for one time use only, then to be tossed out.
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Old May 17, 2017 | 09:18 PM
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I put X-Lockers on my 1 Ton. I'll never go back to either the nylock or double nut.
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Old May 18, 2017 | 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by j_martin
I put X-Lockers on my 1 Ton. I'll never go back to either the nylock or double nut.
Put those on my fronts as well. When I get ready to do the rears, I'll invest in another set of those. Suckers are pricey, but they do the job, and nothing to replace.
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Old May 18, 2017 | 01:04 AM
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So what are X-Lockers?
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