Battering Ram

I am trying to start a strictly informational thread about the P1700 pump and its "ins" and "outs". Being a 24v/VP44 guy I have not really had any expierence with moving cam plates and things of the sort. Any information would be appreciated such as: Modifications to incrase power, govenor springs, flow rates, fuel pressures, durability, pictures, ect, ect... Hopfully this can be a very informational thread and some P1700 experts will jump in. Thanks.

Rebel

Well for starters the P7100 is partialy lubricated by engine oil. It is also used on the 8.3L Cummins, so there is a lot of extra fueling capacity built into the pump for us 5.9 guys ;D<br>You can run the P7100 on a variety of alternative fuels such as kerosene, JP-8 or Jet A.

dodgeman01

Could I really run my truck on straight kersoene. I have a surplus of that sittin on my farm in tanks and was wandering If I could run it during high fuel cost times?<br>DM01

Don M

Our Bosch P pumps all use a 12mm plunger and barrel assemblies from the factory. The big difference in the injection pumps in the different engine combinations is the pump cam and to a lesser extent the plungers and barrels.<br><br>Delivery valves of the different HP level pumps are somewhat different in shape but they are all the most common style. The relief volume of the retraction piston is &quot;what is up&quot; with the different types. Some P pumps use differing styles of DV's, but it is not much of a concern to most. <br><br>The camshaft of the smaller 160, 175, and 180HP engine is an asymetrical shape. The camshaft in the 215HP pump is symetrical. The rate shape of delivery on all pumps is close to the same if not the same. The difference is in plunger time at or near bottom dead center. In easier terms: fill time of the P&amp;B's. The camshaft is shaped to delivery a precisely measured amount of fuel over a pre-determined number of crankshaft degrees. <br><br>The pumps all use roller lifter assemblies to lift the plungers for increased durabilty. <br><br>The tolerances of the P&amp;B's and DV's is in the millionths of an inch. <br><br>Injection pressures for stock pumps is about 17,000psi at best. Generally lower and at low rpm it can be half that. <br>This is one area the common rail shines brighter, its pressure is constant throughout all rpm ranges.<br><br>Injection line length, injector type, rpm range, and discharge curve all play a part in delivery valve design. <br><br>Our P pumps use the RQV-K governer with the springs incoporated in the flyweights. It provides TQ control and speed control for high speed and low speed conditions by adjusting the fuel control rack as needed in real time.<br><br>There is literally enough info on the P pumps i stock form to write several books. Get into the modification end of it and you could never get it all assembled in the Library of Congres.<br><br>Don~<br><br><br><br><br>

Rebel

[quote author=dodgeman01 link=board=16;threadid=9649;start=0#92761 date=1042733838]
Could I really run my truck on straight kersoene. I have a surplus of that sittin on my farm in tanks and was wandering If I could run it during high fuel cost times?
DM01
[/quote]

Yep, Check out some more technical detail on the use of alternative fuels approved by Cummins at Dodgeram.org
All of the approved alternate fuels have a lower btu content than #2 diesel, therefore milage will be slightly lower and power will be down slightly (not a concern if properly fueled ;D). The lower viscosity of 'other' fuels also contributes to slightly less power due to more leakage past the plunger and barrel assembly.

mymaur

You may be able to use alternitive fuels such as Kerosene, but do a lot more research before filling you tank.<br><br>Diesel fuel when squeezed, explodes. I believe it requires 400PSI for this to happen. Which is one of the reasons diesel blocks and all the parts are so thick and heavy. They need to contain this explosion and the resulting torque. Kerosene, jet fuel and gasoline do not explode when pressurised, they require an ignition source to get them lit.<br><br>Also, the thermal properties of each are completely different. The Btu's released by a given quantity of diesel are very low, hence, diesels take much longer to heat up. But, they are more efficent because the molecules of fuel are more fully burned due to the method of ignition, compression.<br><br>Gasoline, is very explosive and easily ignited. But would not work in a modern diesel, no ignition source, and the results of the BTU's it generates would be an interesting question of debate.<br><br>Kerosene, a veryhighly refined grade, is used in jet engines and called JEt-A or JP-8 or JP-4. Sort of like various octane grades of gas. But in the case of Jet fuel the different grades represent the properties of stability. The Air Force used JP-4 for years and the Navy used JP-8. Jp-8 is more stable and harder to light. So it was safer on Carriers. JP-4 is pretty explosive.There are two main reason it is used over gasoline. It is far more stable than gas, IE: it does not have the explosive properties of gas. Put a teaspoon of gasoline on your driveway, drop a match and see what happens, poof!!! Put the same amount of kerosene and drop a match, probably won't light. Put the same amount of JP-4 and it will go off like the gas. The second reason it is used is that it has the hightest BTU rating. In other words it burns hotter than hell. Hotter than gas and surely hotter than diesel. Jet engines need that heat. It is part of their operating principle.<br><br>But, since it is not diesel it also needs an ignition source and yourCTD does not have one, other than compression.<br><br>So, in my humble opinion, if you dump a load of kerosene into your rams tank, odds are, you'll never get it started in a hundred years. If you do get it started, it will probably run horribly and there is no telling what the BTU's it generates will do to everything inside.<br><br>Just my 4 cents

J.R. Adkins

The compression is the reason that we can run basicly anything in a diesel motor. Some are not as good as others. The diesel is used to lube parts in the injection pump. If you run kero you need to add a quart of motor oil for every gallon. Will kero run in a diesel.....yes. Personally I like JP-5 myself. I drank that stuff when I was in the Navy on a bet. I won!

Rebel

Posted by Mymaur, &quot;So, in my humble opinion, if you dump a load of kerosene into your rams tank, odds are, you'll never get it started in a hundred years. If you do get it started, it will probably run horribly and there is no telling what the BTU's it generates will do to everything inside&quot;<br><br>I'm going to have to call Bull Biscuits on this one. I have personally run a diesels on kerosene and it ran just fine. I work at an airport and all the aircraft tugs that are diesel powered are fueled by waste jet fuel, namley Jet A and JP-8. They start and run just fine. <br>Note: JP-4 is NOT approved for use by Cummins.<br>

tmiller24

My litttle brother filled the tank of a Chebbie with K1, it run fine,but with very slightly reduced power. I don't believe that he ever told anyone at Chem-Lawn that he did so.<br> Tony

pappyman

The bumer about kerosene is unless its pure K-1 its dyed red and a large fine if your found with it in your tank...my truck was filled once by accident with off road diesel, it took 3 complete tank refills to get rid of the red dye...and I was a nervous wreck every time I saw a DOT officer... [undecided]

turbo thom

Pappyman........You big CHICKEN! Sqawk...Sqawk...cluck. <br><br> Just no ba!!s at all.<br><br>PT

torqmonster

I want to wake this thread up. There may be something posted on this already, but this is what I found first.

I'm wondering about the different applications the P7100 pump was in. More specifically the difference in delivery valves/timing/power. At work we have numerous trucks with an 8.3 with this pump on it. The only thing I can think to do is take all the numbers off of it and take the 3 minute ride to Cummins on my lunch break and talk to the idiot behind the counter who just hates when I walk in there, probably as much as I do when I see him too. Anyone, unless someone has any information on this, I will keep looking. Thanks.

td52

I was a Crew Chief on a helicopter during the 70's and used JP4 for all kinds of things and never had a problem .. so when I first got my first Dodge with the Cummins (89) I also flew a plane and had access to a lot of JP4 they used for a Bell Jet Ranger.
So every time I went out with my plane I would go over and fill up my truck from the JP4 pump ... they did have other grades ... but I knew how that fuel worked in diesels
I would make up a 25% of diesel and 75% of JP4 and also added sulfur to the tank .. never had a single day I would jell the fuel during the winter even if the weather got down to 50 below ... unlike my Semi I had to keep running and also plugged in
Also have run farm fuel ... I tried to get fuel out of the tank at one time and could not get a tube down to the take to get any fuel out ... so I never worried about getting pulled over and checked ... this is on my newer truck
So I feel if I can find a great deal on fuel I will take the deal ... at one time fuel was 4 bucks a gal .. and now it is over $3 to $3.50 I get fuel at a buck so I take the deal and worry about getting caught when the time comes they check things

mechmagcn

No worries around here about getting a tube in the tank, there's a sniffer for the exhaust to check for dyed fuel

infidel

The guys doing the samples aren't stupid and know all the tricks people use to avoid paying taxes.
If they can't pull a sample from the tank they'll use the fuel filter drain.