How much is the timing kit to buy? I would do it myself if I had the tools.

 

It is hard for me to believe that there are not any responses from CTD owners in my area. They are on the road all over the place, I know they get worked on. I tried to have a maintenance day with other CTD owners and I got more responses from Canadians than anyone even near Arizona.

 

This 250HP marine Cummins 5.9L with P7100 is running 22 degrees:

 

well get your butt back to tx and pick up a couple 30 packs of keystone light and drop by the house. but you need to do some reading and invest in 200 bucks worth of tools from the snapon man. i belive the timing kit is sp500 on the snap on web site. mike

 

So i want to know why everyone is saying that above 16* timing on most of these will damage the wrist pins if they are running 22* on a marine application whats the difference between motors, i know i've been told that ill over stress my stock head gasket past 16/17*. but a marine application is always under load and at sea level (obviously, i know i didnt need to state that) so shouldn't 22* in our applications live and work just fine especially when we've got the injectors and larger DV's sending the fuel in to burn?

Im sorry that picture just makes me want to go outside and retime my truck again.



Dusty

 

The marine motors are not to be ran at full load for long periods of time. If you run a 370 hp 5.9 marine over full load time limits the rod will come threw the block I have seen this before. Adjusting timing will increase power and fuel milage but it is a fact that it will put more stress on the engine I would try 15 degress to start you can always readjust if your not happy.

 

Yep 15* is pretty safe, i backed mine down from 17*- 15* when i dropped altitude. INJECTOR JACK, I never realized that they would exit stage left past the duty cycle time. Good to know.

 

Marine engines have different cam profiles and pump configuration, so 22* is safe for them.

A marine engine will also run at a constant rpm most of the time, so the pump is calibrated for that duty cycle.

A truck on the other hand is running up and down the rpm range constantly in stop/go traffic, so timing is a compromise to handle that.

Timing for the 1/4 mile racer or sled pull will likely be way more advanced, but the operator is prepared to rebuild the engine on a regular basis as a trade off for rocket like performance.

The 160HP doesn't have rack advance built in like the 215HP pumps, so they can use more advance - for example, my 160HP is timed at 16.5* and others have reported good results with more.

I posted the picture, to illustrate that Cummins has many timing variations for their engines and unless a mechanic/Cummins "expert" has educated themselves on the DC forums, they're probably unaware of just what timing can safely be used to achieve more performance. In most cases, even if a technician does know, most won't do it for liability and legal reasons.

Expert defined:

"X"="unknown quantity"
"Spurt"="drip under pressure"

therefore "X-spurt"="unknown drip under pressure" /

 

How about the 1997 180hp pumps. What is a good safe timming to set them at for more milage and performance. I understand it will also lower my EGT's. I was planning to go to 16degs. and run a #4 plate.

 

#10 plate 2/3-3/4 forward much better than #4, in the 180 HP pump MPO but i changed from the 5 to the 10 and have better results with a little tuning, also add the 3k gov spring kit believe me the smooth power curve that the 10 offers is phenominal. Even in a 180hp application you'll love the transition through the fuelling curve no sharp edges or harsh fueling, excellent torque ability.

I ran 16* and 17* timing advance and im back down to a hair above 15 so maybe 15.5 because i was worried about detonation at sea level when i moved, but it's been with good results, next time im into it ill set it back at 16* even at sea level it seems to work extremely well.

So you should be fine.

Dusty

When i put my 10 in here was my response after some mild tuning


I will add that i adjusted my gov arm to start a little further down the curve which seemed to have kept my overall amount of fuel the same but where it starts and where it begins to lean out are better tuned.

Dusty

 

I have a 97 4x4 reg cab with automatic trans. I made an appointment to have a #8 plate installed on Monday with a set of gages and a 3000sgk.

Should I stay with the #8 or should I back off and to a #10?

By the way, it seems everyone I have called is out of the 3000sgk, anyone have a source?

Cheers,
Ron

 

Ron,

The final choice is yours, but what im trying to tell you about is that with the #10 you arent backing off at all. Throw the HP chart out the window, with these plates it's all about profile, position and tuning. what you are looking for is not to just dump a load of fuel into the engine, your looking to have a smooth transition from idle up with great torque. If you want a fuel curve that has peaks and valleys in the plate profile look at the other plates, that will mean that the fueling curve will not be one continual even transition.

Like i said before I have the 180hp pump, I ran a #8 for awhile, i had the hot #5 for two years, and it ran but when Jim Fulmer and Rhavester (Rick) convinced me to try the #10, I was skeptical but now that i have it i will never go back, i have better power #'s across the board now than i did with the 5 my fuel mileage actually came up a hair empty but jumped 1.5 mpg when towing. My low level torque EGTS when towing are more controllable and i have a broader range that i can use now than i did before, my high level EGTs are also off because of the plate's upward profile that leans out my mix at the higher boost level. So all in all this #10 plate really does offer some great tuning advantages over any of the others that are availible.

BUT the guys who will be installing your plate probably won't understand this because they havent tried it yet. So you'll probably end up sliding the 10 forward and adjusting to where it needs to be.

As for Timing i can't help you much, i have a friend who is a dodge diesel tech, he wheels over, or i go to his place and for a few beers the timing gets adjusted.

Dusty

 

I hear what you are saying and I want the best setup for my truck but I was told I had to run a #4 plate to make about the same power as a #10 plate in a 180hp motor because of the smaller injectors and dv's.
Tom

 

Like my email to jim that i posted said, I have the exact same pump as you guys except i run a manual tranny, DV's, injectors and all the parts from a 1996 180HP automatic engine pump. I run a 16cm exhaust housing on a HX35 hybrid with 4" pipe. i have the 3k gov spring kit and the #10 slid forward and my boost is 38-40 at WOT. I cant say anymore than that.

My plate is right at 3/4 forward. As far as HP goes my truck pulls harder now and longer than is was able to with the 5 or the 8 and i had the 8 slid a ways forward. I used to peg 38# of boost with my 5 and my 8 with the same configuration.

I will bet you money to marbles that whoever is telling you that is planning on installing the plate in the rearward "suggested" location and they are basing thier numbers off of the plate manufacturers advertised gains chart.

It is really odd believe me i was extremely skeptical. I was told by Mark at TST that I would never get the same kind of HP out of the 10 as i was getting from my 5. In the end i have more. But these plates respond really well when slid forward and tuned to the right location. Instead of concerning myself with the advertised HP numbers, i have learned to be concerned with the profile of the plate. The profile determines how the fueling comes on and leans out as the boost increases.

I can only tell you that i have yielded better results from my number 10 than my friend with his auto and a #8 has been able to get from his. And my overall performance gains have been noticable when changing from 1 plate to the next and then tuning each one.

Anymore when i install these plates for friends the 10 is the only one i order for a 160, 175, 180 or 215 pump and they all pull just as hard as what other people have installed for other optional plates, in the end the real benefit of the 10 shows up in the EGT's and longer torque curve.


Some of the other plates can be a little snappier but i hated the variable fuelling curves the peaks and valleys when i went to the 10 it was like driving a FI rig over a big 4bbl rig instead of the on and then ON more sensation like my 5 had, the 10 is just ON and keep building. The HP numbers for the rigs that i know who have dynoed with thier 10 slid forward and tuned in two 180hp and 175hp trucks have been better than a 5's advertised numbers.