northslope

Ingredients: grind it, dremmel with a drum sander, wet dry sand paper, SIMICHROME polish applied with cordless drill & q-tips FOR HOURS AND HOURS

Lil Dog

I hear the chains boys.... Down lo on the Kitty talk...

northslope

I will momentarily overstep my boundaries here this is one of the reasons why I live in ALASKA the STARS AND STRIPES STILL FLY OVER THE COURT HOUSE! So we can't even talk about certain things any more?!?!?!? I understand it's against federal law to modify emissions on vehicles, but we can't even talk about it, what is this country coming to

So what you're telling me is if we talk of kitty mods 'THEY' might possibly remove the DTR or fine the DTR Those bunch of *^%&(^$($(&^^$(*^$(*&$(

Yes FREE speech is gone
So "US citizens" can burn my flag but I can't talk of Kitties!!!

I'LL GIVE 'THEM' MY ADDRESS THEY CAN TALK TO A PAIR OF SUPER BLACK HAWK'S

Lil Dog

Hey, I am with you Northslope. I had a lengthy chat with Top on this and I can see how they don't want the liability.

It still gets me how everything is about money and lawsuits.. Just rediculous.

northslope

Sorry about the rant fellas no harm or desrespect intended except to 'THEM'.

I just get a little worked up when 'THEY' tell me what I can and can't do, say or even think.

royta

Regarding EGT's - A #10 is just fine for towing? There's no need to back down to a #11?

My truck is my work truck, and is currently having a Knapheide service body, custom rear bumper, and ladder rack installed. I have no idea how much the factory bed weighs, but I'm guessing after tools and inventory, my truck should be up in the area of 8000 pounds. There is a pretty good chance I'll hook up to a maxed out 10K GVW car trailer in the future, so I don't want to have to worry about EGT's. I just want to jump in and go, with added power of course. The only work I want to do on the truck is planned maintenance. I don't want any surprises, because my family relies on me getting paid to do electrical work, not working on my truck for free. Suggestions?

CTD NUT

I know the feeling.......I tried to argue the law point because it makes me very mad that we can't freely talk with each other about these issues and the federal laws that pertain to them......but the moderators do make a good case and if they feel there is a potential liability then it is not fair to put them at risk........they make the rules and we did agree to abide by them but it doesn't make happy when we are stifled by "money and lawsuits" when we didn't commit any crimes by simply discussing the topic.....

I can see the charges in the headlines: "conspiracy to commit catalytic converter removal"

Lil Dog

Any plate can be installed to give you performance and not blow the EGT's out the window. If you have done upgrades to the air intake and exhaust, then placement of the plate will help in the EGT arena. Thats what is not specified is that the plates have SLOTS, you can adjust them up and down from stock to give the fueling you require. You can have the benefits of the #10 profile without blasting out your clutch or EGT's. I have mine set back from the suggested setting to save my clutch as well as control EGT..

With the stock turbo, you will be constrained on the high RPM band for EGT, not enough flow. If you are going to be at high RPM and load, a turbo housing change at a minimum will be required.

Hope that helps.

Ricktye

That makes sense, Lil Dog....... Might just as well get a #10 plate instead of the #11, and just move it to keep things reasonable. Unless of course I can find an old stock plate and try the grinder on it..............

R...

PS...... I sent you another PM....

royta

Yes, I understand the plates have slots in them, and can be adjusted forward and back. I also understand that each plate has a different fueling profile. This change in profiles between plates is what concerns me.

Let's say one plate gives me perfect power down low, but so much power up high that my EGT's are crazy. So to compensate, I slide the plate back. Now my EGT's are in check up top, but my low end power is now less than it was with a stock plate. However, another plate with a slightly different profile could very well give me perfect power and EGT's up top, and still give me the power I want down low.

Now, I'm not saying that's how I want my fueling profile to be, nor am I implying I know anything about how these plates actually perform. I just want to make sure the #10 is in fact for me. I don't want to have to go to a larger turbo housing in order to keep top end EGT's in check. I also don't want to slide a #10 so far back that I don't feel a difference anywhere else in the powerband. From what I have been hearing, the #10 plate feels great even with it being slid back, so I'm probably over analyzing and making a big deal about nothing. That's what I do best though. After all, I flew 1400 miles from Southern California to Spokane, WA just to buy the perfect used Dodge. I'm just trying to set up my truck for the perfect HP increase, without going crazy on mods in order to use the increase. I'm fine with tranny upgrades, but I need to draw a line somewhere. I guess I really should give TST a call and get it straight from them.

Sorry to hijack the thread, I just thought my concern was on topic with this particular thread, and might help others too.

Thanks for the help.

Ricktye

Interesting point, royta. As I said ealier, my truck will be my daily driver and used at times to tow a fifth wheel. I don't want to go wild with the mods and the plate sounds like the best bang fot the buck. I'll need something with lots of bottom end (to get things moving) and good decent power towing on the highway. And that plate is???

If you talk with TST, let us know what their approach/ recommendations are............

R...

royta

I first spoke with Scott at TST, then called back (because I thought of a couple more questions) and spoke with Mark the owner of TST. I'm going to have a very difficult time explaining myself on paper, as I do a much better job explaining when talking, so please bear with me.

In order to understand what plate to use, you must first understand where the governor arm is resting at idle and throughout the pump's RPM range. A 180 pump has a lower RPM range than a 215 pump. The governor arm also starts out physically lower (in relation to the top and bottom of the pump) on the plate with a 180 pump than on a 215 pump. On a 180 pump, the governor arm's up and down travel is physically higher up the plate than on a 215 pump. So, with a 180 pump, you want a plate with the fueling curve higher on the plate. On a 215 pump, you want the fueling curve lower on the plate. On a side note, as boost is made, the arm physically moves toward the front of the pump and comes to rest against the plate. This is why people slide their plate forward, so the arm will physically move further forward and allow more fueling.

The #10 plate was actually designed for the 215 pump. With just a small jump in RPM's, the pump goes from no fueling to big time fueling. It also requires extensive EGT cooling mods to be used safely with the pump it was designed to be used with. Yes, you can use the #10 on a 180 pump, however, with the stock RPM range, you're not using the lower part of the plate. To use the #10 on a 180 pump, you need to simulate the RPM range the 215 pump has. Without tearing into the pump and changing the governor flyweights and such, people simply install the 3K governor springs, which physically moves the governor arm lower, which in turn allows you to use the lower part of the plate.

Please realize that the above couple paragraphs are me simply parroting what I heard from TST. I am in no way claiming that I am an expert on the matter. However, I do feel I have a pretty good understanding of what is going on a lot more now, than I did yesterday. What would really help, is if I knew the actual maximum up and down travel of the governor arm on all three style pumps (160, 180, 215), and where the the arm starts out at idle. In addition to that, it would be nice to have all six plates in front of me, so I could better understand what part of the plate the arm was using on each of the three style pumps.

I will more than likely take the advice of both Mark and Scott, and will use a #6 (maybe even a #5) plate with the stock governor springs. This will allow me to drive with added power and the way I want to drive, as opposed to driving by the pyro gauge. If I were to ever install 3K governor springs, I would more than likely go to a #11 plate. Remember, these recommendations were based on the fact that my truck will see a combination of 70 to 80 MPH freeway speeds, 0 to 20 MPH freeway speeds (rush hour), and city traffic light driving. All of the above with or without a trailer. If I were building a toy, and didn't mind driving by the pyro gauge, my choices would be far different.

I would like to add that Scott, and especially Mark, were very helpful and did an excellent job of explaining why to use one plate with one pump, and not on another pump.

Lil Dog

Interesting results. It is good to talk to the originator of the plate designs.

Personally, I like the #10. The mid range pull is amazing and the de-fuel at the top end is nice for EGT control. I can get to 1300°F , but I have to be over 2700 Rpm and pulling hard. This is with a stock exhaust system, stock clutch. SO if I could reduce my EGT's by 100°F with an exhaust system, I would be safe. Well save for the clutch, but I have adjusted my fueling for that.

I like the kick the #10 has in the mid range. You go easy until about 1400 RPM then hold on, full fuel and a good hard pull. Really nice when towing too, but if you have an automatic, it could be a real problem.

I agree the #10 and the 215 pump are a good pair.

royta

On a #6, it sounds like the governor arm rests on the peak towards the bottom of the plate.



The fueling curve looks much sharper than a #10, so I imagine it should pull just as strong, if not stronger off of the bottom on a 180 pump. Wouldn't you think?

kd460

Royta, that has to be one of the best explanations I have read in a long time. Thanks for it, Kevin