This 97 12v has the 180 pump, so its stockers are 181's correct? Ordered the full cuts and socket, i just planned on installing them but ive read now in other places that differant holders can be used for differant results. I know nothing about this, can someone explain the diff. holders and the diff. D.V.'s please. Will my stock holders work well with these PDI full cuts? And also with these and the EDM 435's/ zero plate where would you recomend starting with the timing, i was thinking around 18. This will not be driven on the street no smoke is not the concern. Thanks

 

This may help you...

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...ead.php?t=2221

 

Good reading thanks, not a clear answer know where in there though. For sure more fuel, but sounds like some might have been trying to use them with out enough turbo. I could see not needing that much fuel if you dont have the air, i hope and think i do. I suppose i can always pull back on the plate some? But really the big question is still will they work with my stock 181 holders? They were all over the valve and holders deal but looking for less smoke and such, i suppose trying to find a way to drive them on the street, im not worried about that- just power.

 

I dont think the 180 pump came with 181's. it was the 215 pump that came with 181's. if the 97 doesnt have studs keep the timing at 16 deg, even then with all that power it is probally just borrowed time anywho. I have the schieds lazer cuts in my 215 pump and they move some serious fuel. as far as the holders im not sure. but i dont see why they wouldnt work.

 

The holders should work, I have 191'sin my 98 with stock holders. You need to give us more info on what these things are going into though. Full Cut DV's will make my 98 with an HX55 peg the needle on the pyro without much work. They really do flow A LOT of fuel, and it takes a proper tuning to make them work right. If all you want to do is blow smoke theirs easier ways to do it. Remember, guys like John P are using similar DV's and making over 900HP at the wheels, that should tell you how much fuel these will flow.

 

Sorry guys, i assumed you have read some on my project. More detail is over in the conversion section, 1/2 ton short bed chevy. I should finish engine assembly sat and try to fit and build motor mounts and such maybe sunday. Not running a intercooler either right away, i have a 3" stainless long armed 90* pipe im building the turbo to intake pipe out of. Do you think this will for sure require use of water inj. to keep egt;s in check even for the 1/8 mile? My parts list shows im after lots of power, but i to want it to live and temps to be managable to some degree- i did get a 0-2000 pyro so if at times it buryed it id still know where im at. Just wondering about the holders now that ive heard few talk about them? Thanks

 

With my laser cuts the holders are 131.The stock 180 pump does come from factory with 181 DV.I heard that 131 holders will fuel more that 181 holder,but I not sure if thats true.I think you will be ok with the 181 holders.You may have to move the star screw or plate back if your EGT get out of hand.So far the Laser cuts in the 175 pump are working ok.Will see what the dyno says.I just hope my clutch holds up...slipped it twice so far...

 

We put full cut dv's and holders lasered out to .093 in my brothers 97. This with 18* timing, 5k gsk, no plate and no afc, a J.R. Adkins Little 55 woud peg a 60 lb boost gauge and 1600* pyro. It ran well till overspead the turbo and disintgrated the compressor wheel and cartridge. We went back to stock turbo with wastegate functioning to control boost and it srill runs great on the street but will get extremly toasty. But to answer you question, the holders make no difference except at high rpm's and pushing lots of fuel. Full cuts will work with stock holders. Tim

 

Thanks Tim, when they came in today i was shocked at really what you get for the money. I removed my stockers and it said 181 on the factory valves, but the new 'full cuts' or lasers are still factory 181's with very little machine work done to them. Just a Little shoulder turned down on a lathe and they came with more holders but cant tell them from mine stockers either. Would they be anything special, why would they include them when you could just drop the new machined valve down in its place? Am i missing something. Hope these really make the diff. im looking for, ive heard some now say they lost power from using them? Any input- cant wait to try them out.

 

While replacing the full cuts i way studying and trying to learn this pump, wierd to me. The plunger travel in each hole is not as much as i would have thought first off, and we install these valves to increase fuel flow and volume but once it gets past the valve and spring it has this TINY orfice to go through and then back into the large fuel lines. Dont get it, is there a prinicple like refigeration to get the fuel under press. to pass through the tiny passage for a reason? Just saying it looks like the restriction is in the orfice right before it enters the fuel line headed for the injector. Not trying to over complicate but could somebody that knows these pumps help clear this up. Thanks

 

That is exactly right, you do not need lasered holders unless you go to big lines and huge injectors like dual feeds. For people that put on big lines, it don't do any good if you don't change your holders because they will still be a restriction on size. I had my stock dv's cut so there is no shoulder left, lasered holders to .120 to match the lines. This was so when i get the money to go to custom dual feed injectors, they will get the full amount of fuel that i can pushl. My brothers did the same to his dv's but did not cut the holders and it ran fine. We put cut holders last week and dd did not notice any differance but he still has stock line. This is another long post by me, but i hope this will help you out. Tim


Edit: I dont know about loosing power, but they will allow you to flow alot of fuel. On both of our trucks they can be very smokey so you have toi be easy on the thottle. The main thing they do is move fuel on top end. The main thing i see them do is with big lines, holders and dv's, the pump will do a "bounce" that makes it more difficult to drive. You almost have to let the pump drop and then come back up to idle rpms or if you give it go peddle it will jump and slap the drivetrain around. Hard to explain but if you drive one that does this you will see what i mean.

 

if you want some real good info, contact member Smokem over at competition diesel. He can tell you everything you'd ever want to know plus some about delivery valves and the p-pump workings.

 

Thanks guys, im now wondering if im calling the holders the wrong part after reading your last statment. What i was concidering the holder is the round part that the little valve falls into, it almost sounds thoughas if the holders are the big upper part that has the special splined top? I did get them installed today along with the 4K GSK, AFC spring kit, ground the cam plate to a kind of modified 100, and all the other goodies. With the new ground plate full forward the arm, lever or whatever missed the plate and just went under it. I removed the rear cover and fiqured out how to adjust it up to just catch, anyone else had to do this? I would have thought i would have read that by now. Any ways i still see the biggest restriction being the orfice setting on the spring above the D.V's is this what is called the holders? Sorry but Thanks a bunch

 

I guess we were talking about different things. Oh well. Yes the holder is what actually holds the spring pressure on the dv and the inj. lines hook to. I'm not sure about the thing that the dv sets in i call it the bucket. Im sure that is not right. I do not think there is a differance in the buckets unless certain people have them machined to the same spec as the dv's. The dv's i deal with have no shoulder left they are just smooth and they do not require special buckets. If you custom ground your awn plate, does the rack travel all the way forward before contacting the plate at the top. My pump runs a custom plate also but it was done ona test stand for max fuel and rack travel but it is also a agressive fuel rate as the fuel comes on early. The afc arm was also set on the stand so i cant tell you anything about mine but for the ones i do, we just take the arm out for max fuel when pulling. No matter how you set the arm, you can gain 50 to 75 cc's fuel by removing it compared to adjusting it. Tim

 

Thanks a lot for the info that really helped clear up the confussion on the holders and buckets. Do you also replace to the 2095 rack plug for more travel? I have one comming and that should complete the engine parts.