I had a dream last night that I was doing a lockout conversion on my 97 by simply bolting on an existing setup. ( Don't ask, I have weird dreams....)
Sometimes, I just let it pass, but this had all too much realism, and more than once my dreams have come to fruition..... In any instance, has anyone ever taken a serious look at the older, Gen 1 D60's to see if we could simply bolt on everything from the knuckles out? I did a search, and did find that the Gen 1 trucks did take a different part number ball joint, but they also had a funky threaded nut, so that could account for the differences.

While I was searching, I also thought about the F350 D-60's with balljoints. What I found is the years 92-97 uses the exact same balljoint our 94-97's do.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the U-joints be in roughly the same place in all front ends? If it were not, wouldn't you get a terrible binding as you turned?

Anybody have a Furd D-60 from 92-97 laying around you could compare? Mine happens to be a kingpin style, so I am out of luck.

Man, if I could just find a D-60 from a Furd and use everything from the balljoints out, just how sweet would that be?

Comments?

 

Uh...why not just use the whole Ford Axle like most guys do...you might even find a High Pinion laying around some junkyard you could swap in...problem is you'll have to weld on new tabs and pads to connect your suspension components. I would be very weary of swapping Ford knuckles onto a Dodge axle, partially because the C-Flange/Inner Knuckle might not be the same height between the two...in which case your ball joints will be long or short one way to the other. I used to work for Dana as a Test Engineer...its not something I would try unless I had the blueprints for both vehicles.

 

First gen's have kingpins.
In theory the u-joint would have to be in the same location, weather it is I dunno.
Ford uses a different spindle setup than Dodge or Chevy. Different mounting bolt pattern and bearing spacing.
Not saying it can't be done, just listing some stuff I can think of.

 

look here www.emsoffroad.com

scot

 

I've wondered the same thing myself, but never had the resources to get the research done.... I'll def. be keeping an eye on this thread.

 

Need, I have a complete high pinion kingpin axle, and that was my original plans, who knows, it may still be how I go. There are some problems associated with that swap as well, including the axle being some 1-1/2" shorter, making the bracketry extremely difficult as well as it virtually forces you to build in a leveling kit.

Since you used to work for Dana, did you ever see them do weird stuff like you described, where you literally would have a different axle end and spindle forging, while using the same balljoint? No biggie if you didn't, I just know most Engineers like myself try and keep things simple whenever possible.

Scot, EMS would be my second choice, with the obvious difficulty if you are in the middle of BFE 10 years from now, where do you get custom components.

Captain, when you say the first gen uses kingpins, does that mean the spindle is not tapered, like the early Furd D-60s are not? If so, that pretty much rules out keeping Dodge with Dodge.

I think I will start looking for a Furd balljoint axle or spindle at least to compare.......

 

I have the EMS Kit, very satisified, All bearings& locker axles are standard parts
But I to had the thought, What If I cream the hub out in the woods,,,
I saved the old hubs with the stub axle still attached
( the Hub, stub axle and Inner axle was pulled as an asm and inner axle seperated on bench )
I keep the hub / inner stub axle with me as a spare part so I can swap it back if neccassary,
As far as 10 years from now ,worse comes to worse, revert to OEM,
besides I'm 68, If I should live that long I'll happly deal with the problem

 

Well here is what I would do if I were you:

Take the axle C-flanges off the ends of both axles...make sure you cut the welds off exactly at the ends. Then take and throw the Ford Knuckle assembly onto your Dodge axle, making sure you keep the hub face the same distance as your Dodge hubs were spaced from the factory. You could re-use your Dodge inner axle shafts, and possibly the Ford outers. You may have to cut one or the other down some...you'll find that out once you get there.

I have personally hacked up a number of different axles to use test parts on an extremely strong piece of fixturing. The difference is...we were'nt going to run these axles on the road, so if a weld didn't hold, we'd just re-weld it once it broke...no harm done. On the street you have to be 110% sure nothing can break.

 

Need, that was another thought I had, hack my kingpin 60, and since I have access to plenty of machinery, I can make a sleeve to go inside the axle tube and preserve alignment as well as be able to plug weld it like a splice tube. Thats another possibility, though by the time I do that, I probably should get serious about making bolt on brackets, I know I could sell a few sets.

 

If you are talking about the bearing area of the spindle, yes it is tappered. Takes the same bearings as a Chevy D60.
If you are talking about where the kingpins go through the "knuckle" I cannot say for 100% sure Never gotten that far into one.

 

I've done that a time or two, but mostly to match a small light duty axle to a heavy duty truck axle for fixturing. The only problem your going to watch out for with that is that your welds WILL crack. We solved this by using plug welds drilled through the outer tube, and then drilling a hole through both pieces with a chamfer at the top (like a countersink) and press fitting a pin into that hole and welding it in...making sure to fill the chamfer. Do this with 4 plug welds on each side and at least 2 pins per side...I've done 6 on some axles. You'll never have that thing come apart, even if you want it to.

 

Need, been doing a little more searching, have a few more questions.

How do the C knuckles go onto the housing tubes? From what I see, it appears as if they actually slide onto the tube, thus the weight of the truck would bear first on the knuckle, and be transferred to the tube, thus the welding would be to retain the knuckle to the tube, not support the weight of the truck.
If so, another option would be for me to use my Furd ( or better yet, a 1st gen Dodge ) Kingpin outers and buy new HD C knuckles and remove my balljoint ones.

Did you guys ever replace one without pulling the whole tube? That would also preclude any welding issues as both are manufactured from low or medium carbon steels.

Captain, they unfortunately are different, so that precludes using gen 1 stuff without also changing the C knuckle.

 

Well the C flanges/C knuckles are pressed over the axle tube, then welded on, generally on both sides with a MIG welder...So yes, they transfer the weight of the vehicle onto the entire tube, not just an end weld.

If you could find someone to make you a set of C flanges/knuckles you could in theory cut the welds on the old piece and slip the new ones on where the old ones were. Only problem is...I don't think you'll ever get the old knuckles off the axle tubes. You could try heating the snot out of them and beating them off, but you could be there a while. Cutting the entire axle tube off and attaching it to the old axle would be easier IMO. Or even drilling out the plug welds in the Carrier and pressing the old tubes off would be easier.

Your definitely on the right track, hopefully you have some pretty big presses because you'll need them to work with full axle assemblies.

 

Need, this might just work out. I can scarf off my old C Knuckles with a torch, I've done worse things with a torch. I am pretty doggone sure I can peel the weld back and blow the knuckle along the front or rear to release it. I found a place that sells HD C Knuckles new, check out this place: http://www.rockstomper.com/catalog/axles/60knuckles.htm

They are kinda pricey, I know I just saw another place with stock Dana 60 parts.

I think for the present, I am going to continue to research the possibility of using stock 93-97 stuff and save cutting and welding for my last resort.

I don't think my use is really bad enough that the Balljoint style is too weak, we shall see when I get the plow on.

In any instance, thanks for the information!

 

Yea. Those'll more than do the job. My last bit of advise is to make sure you run crossover steering, and a DSS, because with the weight of all the parts you'll be adding its just going to make the stock steering system that much more inadequate.

As long as you can get the stock C Flanges off of the axle you'll be fine...and thinking about it, since you won't be reusing it you could cut the flange into 2 parts (one cut on either side of the flange) and then cut the welds off. This should allow the C-flange to come off in two parts, and you won't have to beat them off. Make sure you grind the welds down good and flush, otherwise your new C-flange may not go on straight, which would permanently screw up your alignment.