aksparkey01

i think your on the right track with injectors.

Vaughn MacKenzie

Wow much cheaper than the flat $60 per injector the diesel shop in town here charges

spooled05

My truck did something similar but only when cold,than a friends did it only when warm and what i did to fix both is replace the fitting where the hard line conn. to the fuel heater, its like a compression fitting but instead of a copper furrel its rubber and when i took it apart it came out in pieces.Put a hose barb fitting in its place and run a new hose to the fuel line on the frame!

Palmetto_kid

Why not try some injector cleaner & fresh #2 in your tank BEFORE you pull the injectors out?

I had a problem like this on my '97 (I wasnt running WVO though), and I dumped some PowerService in my tank, got out on the county road, and drove as fast as it would go (55-60 mph). It was missing, and smoking, and about 1/2 mile into it, it all of the sudden cleared up. and I was able to run as fast as I wanted to. Never had another problem.

Rockyhud

Spooled05 and Palmetto_kid, thanks for the new tips. It's interesting that Spooled05 mentioned the fitting for the line going to the heater. On another forum I read a troubleshooting guide one member wrote that mentioned this fitting as a potential for allowing air leaks into the fuel line. Since that's pretty easy to get to I'm going to investigate that soon. I'll update this thread once I check that out.

I talked to the owner of Alan's Auto and Diesel Repair last Friday and he suggested somewhat the same thing about injector cleaning - running a good cleaner in the fuel tank and letting that clean the injectors and everything else is the next best thing to removing them for cleaning. I bought a bottle of Stanadyne fuel treatment that he said is about the best there is and put a little more than generally recommended for the amount of fuel I had in the tank. I haven't driven it far enough to really get it circulating through the whole system yet - hopefully I'll have some time to drive it some this week after work.

Sunday I decided to try tightening the drain-back line bolts and the injector lines nuts, just in case they had worked a little loose. Didn't help. Before this I did some more research on the web and found some people describing the injector removal process as sometimes requiring a slide hammer and nut to get them out while a few others said they had to use a pry bar and nut, especially on number 5 and 6 (due to space limitations). Consequently I'm a little hesitant to start removing the hard lines only to find I can't get the injectors out. So, this plays into my plan to see if the fuel cleaner will help. I'm hoping this a possibly finding a bad fitting on the fuel heater will be my saving grace.

As always I appreciate all the help and tips you all have been providing - just goes to show why this is the best Dodge/Cummins site on the web.

Steve

patdaly

For Injectors, use a piece of PVC tubing , a washer, and one of your lugnuts to create a puller.

Works much nicer than a slide hammer or prybar.

Troutstrannysvc

I am having the same issue with my truck.
I did not have this issue until I took it to the drag strip one night and made a few passes.

Anyways, Truck runs perfect in the morning temp before it gets up to operating tempatures. After it reachs op. temps it will stumble at an idle.
I do not notice it when I am on the throttle, only at an idle.
At this same time I lost ALL oil pressure (which scared the hell out of me).
I hooked up a manual oil pressure gauge up to find it to be a faulty parts-store sending unit that caused my oil pressure mishap.

I've been chasing this studder/miss for about 2-3 weeks now. I absolutely can-NOT find it.
I took the injectors got them tested and they all where perfect (as I suspected they where brand new).
Put the injectors back in, and still have the stumble (no suprise there).

Anyways I am leaning towards the idea that I am pulling air into the fuel system SOMEWHERE, just where, I dunno.

I replaced the two lines going back to the tank from the injection pump w/ rubber fuel line (not sure if this would cause any of my issues, if so please point out).

^^^ Not trying to hi-jack, just trying to get information!


Now, as far as your situation goes.
Injectors are a piece of cake, sometimes they can be a bugger to get out of the holes but as stated use PVC, vice-grips, ect.
Another idea I had and I plan on checking is that I plan on dropping the tank and checking out the inside to see if there is any crud, or residue. There is a fuel-prefilter that you might wanna check too.
Also check and see if any of your fuel lines are running near the exhaust, it could be vapor locking itself.
Pull the bleeder screw ontop of the fuel filter, see if you get any foam.
If theres foam, theres air.

Other than that I am going to re-read the thread and see if I can't come up w/ anymore ideas..

94DK107

Having the same issues w/my truck after it warms up(stalling, sputtering). Wondering if you figured out whats wrong w/yours?? I'm thinking clogged injectors or dv's..? Tomorrow I'm going to dump some good injector cleaner in it and see what happens. Like stated before, very intermittant and only after warmed up.

Vaughn MacKenzie

Great point spooled05. Had the same thing on my '96, it disintigrated. One thing to note, you CANNOT get the seal for that line from Dodge or Cummins. . . neither parts catalog shows it as even existing, so replacing that section of line is about the only option. As I recall the fitting it screws onto comes out, then use a Barb/NPT fitting (1/4" NPT I think) then run the rubber line to the hard fuel line from the tank. Looks like this http://www.veneersupplies.com/produc...oducts_id=2319

Vaughn

Rockyhud

Hi all,

Sorry for the long delay in getting an update on what the root cause of the problem was. Long story short it was the lift pump. Now, for the bitter details.

I won't name the shop I took the truck to in Colorado Springs but I will say I will NEVER take another vehicle there again. If anyone is interested in the name of the shop PM me and I'll divulge all. I really got a soaking, as far as what they charged and what I got for the money.

To help them out I created a document on my computer with all the things I had done while troubleshooting the problem and all the parts I had both checked and found not to be the problem as well as what I had replaced. I also gave their so-called diesel/Cummins specialist a verbal run-down, emphasizing I was almost 100% certain it was a fuel starvation problem. After all that he had the audacity to throw out his first presumption that it could be a bad turbo - he asked how many miles the truck had and immediately came back with "most turbos only last about 85K". I assured him the turbo was NOT the problem and moved on with explaining why it was a fuel starvation issue. On parting with them I told them do NOT just throw parts at the problem in the hope one of them will fix it. I also told them to call me before replacing anything. This was Monday morning of last week.

They kept it through Monday and into Tuesday. Tuesday morning they called and said they checked the lift pump fuel pressure and it was 22 psi. They also said they couldn't find anything on the engine wrong and directed their attention to the fuel tank. At this point they asked what kind of fuel I used (this was a clue for what was to be their "determination" of the cause of the problem later). I told them I had found a good source of diesel/veggie mix from a very knowledgeable dealer near home. They immediately jumped on that causing a sludge buildup in the tank and proceeded with that as their cause. They said they dropped the tank and cleaned it and the fuel tank module/sending unit ($262 labor). They also said they ran some diesel system cleaner and conditioner ($50 each) through the system. After that their diesel guru called to let me know it was fixed and ready to go.

I walked the mile and a half to the shop, paid the shop bill (now totaling $530 and change) and proceeded to check out their fix. I drove it around the neighborhood and concluded very quickly it still wasn't right - it was very little better than when I took it in. I drove back and took the diesel guru for a test ride so he could feel, hear and see exactly what was wrong. I'm beginning to think this guy never even took the truck out to experience what all I had told him earlier. He agreed it wasn't right and said he wouldn't charge for any more diagnostic time, but in the same breath he advised me to take it home and drive it 3-4 days, saying the system cleaner might need some time to get run out. He also advised I get a full fresh tank of straight diesel to help in this purging process.

I left the shop and proceeded home the same route I usually take after work (about 13-15 miles, mostly hi-way). As I was trying to get up speed on the hi-way I quickly realized I wasn't going to be able to get up to a safe hi-way speed anytime soon and stayed in the right lane with emergency flashers on. About half way home it was going so slow that I was afraid of someone rear-ending me so I pulled to the shoulder and let it idle. It was running pretty rough but after letting it idle it started smoothing out again (hint: fuel starvation then relieved after replenishment from idling). I called the shop and said it was absolutely no better than before I brought it in and I was bringing back first thing the next morning.

Next day the truck was back in their hands. I got a call about 2:00 PM from the shop "Service Advisor" who said the lift pump fuel pressure had been checked again, however this time it was 0 psi. I'm thinking they must have actually hooked up a pressure gauge and then actually taken it out for a test, just like I showed their guru earlier. He proceeds to tell me what they'll do - remove the starter, replace the lift pump and re-install the starter. He quotes me $289 for the new lift pump and the rest is labor. I asked where their source was so I could check it out but he wouldn't divulge that info so I said I would provide the pump. I called a shop well known for having German-built overflow valves and found they also have brand new lift pumps for $85 (plus shipping) and had them ship one to the repair shop (again PM me if you want the name of this shop). I notified the shop at which point they said they wouldn't accept shipments from customer sourced parts. After telling them it was on its way and that I couldn't have it shipped to my work (government facility on Peterson AFB) they finally conceded to accepting it. They then continued trying to convince me to buy theirs saying they could provide a "nation-wide labor warrenty" if it failed again (all I'd have to do is take it to NAPA for replacement and send a shop receipt to them and hope they'd reimburse my expenses - yeah right).

After my calling them the next day, about 2:00 PM, I was told it would be ready in about 2 hours. As I had finished my day I walked there again, taking about 20 minutes to get there - and what do you think I see parked in front, my truck. I go in, tell them who I am (again) and they begin to prepare the bill. They make notes on the bill stating they wouldn't stand behind the customer supplied part (duh) then go on saying the old pump was leaking fuel into the engine and highly recommend changing the oil, filter and fuel filter ASAP. I also see they've added diag charges (another $55) which wasn't the agreement I had earlier.

By this time I'm pretty frustrated with them and just want to get my truck and leave, regardless if its fixed or not - I'm just not in the mood to get into an argument about the diag charges as well as the $530 I paid earlier that I didn't get any benefit from. I get in the truck and drive away, checking out the performance as I go. To my delight it's running like it was before the problem raised its ugly head - yee hah, I don't have to work on it myself or take it to another shop.

As a precaution I decided I should check the old lift pump to see if it really was leaking fuel into the engine. Just as I suspect, there is no evidence of any fuel leak ANYWHERE - there is no leak inside or out. So, it appears they were trying to sucker me into spending MORE money for an unnecessary oil change along with new oil and fuel filters.

Now that I've confirmed the pump wasn't leaking I'm wondering if they really dropped the tank and did any cleaning of it. I'm going to check that out in the next few days to see if the tank and module looks like they've been "touched" or not. If I see no signs of their cleaning it I'm contacting my bank and contesting ALL the charges. If it goes this far I'm betting my bank will side with me as they have a few other times we've had similar issues.

So, that's the long story. From my experience in troubleshooting things for many years and analyzing the situation with all the facts, I've concluded the solvent action of the diesel/veggie fuel (and additives) may have loosened or dissolved some of the sludge that had probably accumulated over the years, causing the fuel lines to become somewhat clogged and causing the lift pump to work harder pulling fuel from the tank. This worked the pump harder than usual and caused it to degrade in its ability to pump effectively even when (if?) the fuel lines were completely open and flowing their full capacity. It's also apparent this repair shop simply hooked up a pressure gauge and checked the fuel pressure with the truck idling in their lot, never taking it out to put it under load to see if it varied or dropped.

Since this all started I also ordered a fuel pressure gauge for permanent installation in the cab. I'll be installing that this weekend so I can keep an eye on fuel pressure while driving from now on.

Any by the way, I filled the truck tank with the same diesel/veggie fuel and it's running just fine. Chuck, the fuel dealer, told me he's heard lots of horror stories of people getting taken by shops that do all sorts of repairs and falsely blame the problem on the customer's use of "alternate" diesel fuel.

Well, that's it. I hope I didn't bore you all with the whole saga but more so I hope this helps someone later on if they have fuel related problems with their 12-valve CTD.

Steve

Big Smoky

WOW...That sucks. I would be mad as hell! Some "diesel mechanics" don't know a thing about these engines it seems like. I've ran across a few who claim to be diesel mechanics, but don't know the most basic things about these engines.

turbos10

Stories like this make me glad my best friend owns a diesel mechanic shop. I pay him a fair price(probably much less than fair since he is usually doing me favors) and I know he will fix it through diagnostics and will be honest if they make a mistake.

infidel

Like I've been preaching here for years:
A permanent fuel pressure gauge pays for itself many times over.
Install one> https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...41&postcount=9

Dhorn33

I run 100% WVO through my truck and have researched this alot. I am wondering if any of your problems are caused by running the WVO in the truck and not heating it first? I have been advised to never switch to WVO until the engine temp reaches 160 degrees or risk coking the injectors and other problems. Since you indicate you have problems after the engine has cooled - I wonder if the WVO is cooling in the system since it is not purged out? I realize you are mixing it - but maybe it is just enough to have cause issues in your truck?

turbos10

My understanding is the WVO must be at 160+ degress NOT the engine. You must monitor oil temp and not switch untill it is warm in the tank. I have a feeling the blend can cause coking problems as well. I wanted to blend, but from what I found it seemed to be a bad idea long term.